Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

[mputnal]

SCJ, are you trying to make a point again that has nothing to do with the facts? If you have children that have gone to college I hope they are not reading your posts! All my children have gone to college and I am very proud of each of them even if they disagree with me on issues. As a matter of fact they are all BETTER than me. I think that should be the point. BTW facts matter but not at the expense of truth.

Kathryn, I know you are not talking about me and huge profits but I am wondering who the "little people" are? Are the little people all the non-BFO's? Are they working class folk? Are they all the losers who enjoy spending a day at the beach? Are they small business people? Are they middle class? Why go down this path of taking such an extreme position that it makes you say things like "socialist" or "little people"? It is okay to have a difference of opinion but we should try to be respectful right?

 

[billtodd]

Calling community members socialists is stupid. As if that word hurts anyone not watching fox propaganda and rally speeches. Surely any high school graduate could come up with a better insult that is relevant.

 

[FloridaBeachBum]

This is the reason why we should debate issues in public where real questions and real answers are considered civil discussions. [mpoutnal you have said many times the Plaintiff’s (Walton Commissioners’) CU complaint will be settled in court. Now if you want to debate the “C” word CREDABILITY, that would be a good debate.” CU facts vs CU fictions.]

The County has filed over 8,000 documents as evidence of Recreational Customary Use on Walton County Beaches. Is that specifically clear enough? [Not clear! Where are the documents!? Or who told you that? Sounds in-credible. Can you produce 80 pages from each point of evidence. I can not find any on the Walton Clerk of Courts case public web page.]

I believe that a County Government [of 5 politically elected commissioners] has the authority to make a conclusion of whether or not the beach has a history of general recreational public use or exclusive private beach [NOT without seeking an independent court ruling FIRST! Read FS 163.035]. They [5 commissioners] concluded recreational public use [and the Florida Legislators concluded that was wrong and 84% voted to ensure no other county did what Walton did by declaring CU on private property as Plaintiffs]. There is much evidence that will support that conclusion. [Where? What credible evidence can you provide to support your “much evidence” CU opinion?]

Of course you and the power brokers disagree and that is why we have a lawsuit [NO! Walton Commissioners disagreed that owners have the right to Choose to share their property or not and brought suite to Change the property owners right to CHOOSE to share their property or not and are willing to spend $40,000,000 or $50,000,000 of Walton tax pay’s money to find out.]

You blame the lawsuit on the County but the lawsuit is because the power brokers convinced BFO's [to spend many tens of thousands of their own money] that they need to "dispute" recreational use so that private ownership of the beach will give them the power to exclude ... [NO! The Plaintiffs, Walton commissioners, have the burden of proof to change the EXISTING rights of property owners. What skin do CU believers personally have in the game like BPOS? Easy easy to have CU beliefs when spending all Walton tax payers money]. The definition of a power broker is someone who abuses power [Like the past and present Walton commissioners declaring without BPO due process]. The only taking of the beach would be if the Judge rules in favor of private beaches because of the historical recreational public use of Walton County beaches [Why do you think your CU belief is Credible?]. The US Constitutional will not support an individual's right to exclude the public from a public beach in my opinion [Not a credible opinion. Like a belly button; everyone has one. No basis in credible facts].

When you use a word to demean, minimize, bully or ridicule like "socialist" you are trying to provoke an emotion [Like when you and vocal CU believers call BPO properties “Our Beaches”?].
------------
#1821 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
I believe what kayti elliott posted is called sarcasm; the use of irony to mock or convey contempt. I believe she was referring to the Seaside 30A beach view businesses that have huge profit margins and businesses benefit from all Walton private beaches open to the public. And crusades for people who have not spent their own money to purchase beachfront property at market value as opposed to greedy rich BPOs [sarcasm]. Little people such as Seaside 30A business owners [sarcasm].

 

[kayti elliott]

I'

Calling community members socialists is stupid. As if that word hurts anyone not watching fox propaganda and rally speeches. Surely any high school graduate could come up with a better insult that is relevant.

I seem to recall some of the righteous zealots here calling one community member who was obviously using an alias, Mike Huckabee. And when someone supports socialsts I tend to jump to the conclusion that they are socialists themselves. And is calling someone a socialist any different than calling someone a "power broker"?

 

[Stone Cold J]

You frame the question with a flawed opinion "forced occupation" "against the will" "unlimited people with unlimited beach equipment". Those words are not facts.

SCJ, btw Walton County has filed over 8000 pages of evidence for general recreational beach use.

1. Court documents prove that prior to 2016, the BCC recognized, that these same owners that the county is now suing, have legally purchased private property, with legally binding deeds, which are accepted by Walton County, the State of Florida, and the Federal Government.

2. Private Property Rights in the State of Florida are currently posted on the Walton County Web Site, include the right to fully determine who, and how many, and what beach equipment, may be on their private property (right of exclusion).

3. The State of Florida and the US Federal Government still recognize private property owner rights in Walton County, it is only the Walton County BCC, that as of 2016, no longer recognizes these same rights that they had recognized for generations.

4. The BCC is suing the private beach front owner so unlimited people with unlimited beach equipment can occupy private property against the will of the property owner without compensation.

5. In all the documents provided by the BCC, there is no evidence that that prove, or even suggest, that removing Property Rights (right of exclusion) of a deeded property owner, is ancient, reasonable, without interruption and without dispute.

 

[mputnal]

Kathyrn, how else would you classify an individual that seeks power to exclude families from the beach and are not even part of this community. I only began using the term after Reggie/Regina used the term. They even called themselves hired guns! The term power broker is not meant to demean or insult or minimize their opinion Only to identify their purpose in this forum

ScJ and FBB, Obviously your purpose has been exposed and the truth hurts. Each time anyone answers your questions you attack as if you are above the laws of the land. It is exactly like your hyperlink of minority and majority rights described an autocrat. I think you are making it worse for the BFO’s. You probably would not do well in a public debate but the offer stands

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

BMBV, good to have you back. I am looking for a moderator for the GREAT debate. Will you reconsider?

No. And remember Reggie corrected me...it was supposed to have been a discussion. And Dave Rauschkolb shows zero interest in such.

You blame the lawsuit on the County but the lawsuit is because the power brokers convinced BFO's that they need to "dispute" recreational use .....

Don’t believe I said the words, “I blame the county for the lawsuit.”

BUT....logically speaking, since you brought it up, if the county actually filed the lawsuit then who else can be blamed but the county for filing the lawsuit? Can’t wait for the next wave of mish-mash to counter the obvious.

Again, I purchased a condo which included and STILL INCLUDES all rights to private property for just over $100,000 with an 80% mortgage almost two decades ago. Does that make me a power broker? Hell no. Does that make me any less passionate regarding protecting my private property from pirating and pilfering politicians? Double hell no.

You really have no substantial argument with my personal situation other than you think I should simply give up my private property rights for the greater good of The People (your term) with absolutely no compensation just because you “feel” it righteous even though the public really doesn’t even try to use our property for the most part....

When the condo was purchased, I NEVER saw the public walk hundreds of feet to sit on our sand. It wasn’t necessary. And in reality, that’s still mostly true today even though tourism has increased multiple amounts over the last two decades.

So you see, I’m defending my property mainly out of principle, not that the public is competing for beach space on our property or because any so called power broker (your words) told me to.

For me, it’s all about the rule of law and the blatant overreach by the county commissioners. I and most private property owners think for themselves. I know, hard for you to believe and/or comprehend.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Funny, I just saw our real estate agent’s name who received a commission on the sale of our condo on Facebook pushing customary use. Do you think I have a case against that agent for not revealing that the condo came with a high probability of customary use litigation even though the condo and common areas are legally deeded as private property to the MHWL at the time of purchase with no customary use burden on the title OR ANYWHERE ELSE for that matter?

Certainly if the agent believes the four cornerstones of customary, then the agent (who currently supports CU) knew full well at the time of the sale that part of my supposed conveyed full package of private property rights was lacking the right to exclude because of customary use (notorious, since time immemorial, etc.) However, the agent never revealed this. This non-disclosure, I believe, is a lot different than, say, not revealing a structural problem or faulty appliance, which they may or may not have known about.

I guess the agent could state the obvious...there wasn’t customary use at that time as the public didn’t walk hundreds of feet to use our property. But if true, there can’t be customary use today on our property for the very same reason.

 

[kayti elliott]

Kathyrn, how else would you classify an individual that seeks power to exclude families from the beach and are not even part of this community. I only began using the term after Reggie/Regina used the term. They even called themselves hired guns! The term power broker is not meant to demean or insult or minimize their opinion Only to identify their purpose in this forum

ScJ and FBB, Obviously your purpose has been exposed and the truth hurts. Each time anyone answers your questions you attack as if you are above the laws of the land. It is exactly like your hyperlink of minority and majority rights described an autocrat. I think you are making it worse for the BFO’s. You probably would not do well in a public debate but the offer stands

I'm so happy to hear your "expert" analysis on what other people's purposes are in expressing their thoughts or beliefs. Cause junkies (those who jump on popular causes) amuse me. I happen to be one of the "little people" that the head cause junkie thinks he represents. Apparently my attempt at sarcastic humor is lost on 'cause junkies'.

 

[mputnal]

Kathryn, come on now there is no reason to be sarcastic and insulting. We are not enemies. We both are part of this community. When I first clicked on this thread I was on the side of protecting property rights! But when I started asking questions about compromise, individual power to exclude families from the beaches, blocking views with huge buildings all the way to the ground and up several floors, abusing the process, abusing power, lack of credibility and integrity, false statements, manipulated principles, outright dishonesty and hiding both their purpose and identity I quickly sensed something very rotten in their statements of fact. I am not following anything other than my instinct to protect myself from people who abuse power. You can't help but notice how they attack anyone who has a different opinion. They literally believe their opinions and principles are superior to all of us including the BFO's. I feel a sense of standing up to a bunch of bullies. That is the only reason why I keep posting.