Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. bob bob

    bob bob Beach Fanatic

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    What do you have to contribute to the solution, or do you like to be part of the problem? WAR EAGLE!!!
     
  2. Lake View Too

    Lake View Too SoWal Insider

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    ROLL TIDE!! Especially upon the beaches, so it all stays wet.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  3. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

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    Well heck. Guess I’ll have to start bringing up Uhlfelfer’s Nazi card again, now that you’re engaging me and trying to redicule me on a personal basis. It’s only fair, right?

    Uhlfelder’s grandfather would be ashamed of his grandson for referring to him and using the atrocities committed by Nazis as an argument for customary use, IMHO.

    And the fact that you haven’t condemned Uhlfelder’s reference (you’ve had plenty of chances) speaks volumes.

    Simply put, the tactics you and FBFA use to peddle your agenda will “Destroy our 30A Legacy”. I think it’s already happened.
     
  4. Stone Cold J

    Stone Cold J Beach Lover

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    I am Pro CU and Pro Constitutional Property Rights and don’t think they are in conflict.

    Solution #1. Separate the issues. Have the BCC implement new ordinance to protect public’s ability to walk the beach (traverse), swim, fish, surface, collect shells, take pictures, etc on all 26 miles of coastline. Leave out the bit about forced occupation of private property to allow people put chairs, umbrellas, etc on private property against the will of the owner. The ordinance should not be controversial if the BCC removes the forced occupation part. If people want to day camp then they should go to State Park or Public Beach or rent a home/condo that owns that property.

    Solution #2. Drop the lawsuit against taking private property rights against the will of the owner, which many believe might violate constitutional property rights and eventually may be thrown out of court anyway. Use the money instead to protect our unique coastal ecosystem.

    Solution #3. Spend ½ of the advertising budget on local infrastructure. Roads, restrooms, water treatment. The past advertising has been very effective, we already have more tourists than we can handle. Don’t bring any more tourists until they can be accommodated without destroying our unique ecosystem.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
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  5. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

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    Solution?????
    Any REAL solution would involve COMPROMISE.
    And Mr. and Mrs. NO COMPROMISE have more than once stated they won’t accept that. At this point, I simcerely believe that many pro CU folks have to be taking a second look at the stance of their CU leaders. The fact that the question for a solution was asked just now is evidence.
     
  6. Bob Wells

    Bob Wells Beach Fanatic

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    #3 is a problem. You will have to take up with the State.
     
  7. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

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    Yeah, and then take up #1 and #2 with Mr. and Mrs. NO COMPROMISE.
     
  8. James Bentwood

    James Bentwood Beach Fanatic

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    I like 3. but there are laws on how tourist tax can be spent. Although they are about to loosen it up a bit. Even so, your point is valid and we don't have to collect it OR spend it.
     
  9. Lake View Too

    Lake View Too SoWal Insider

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    I believe HR631 has made #1 out of reach. It states that this matter has to be adjudicated in a court of law.
     
  10. Bob Wells

    Bob Wells Beach Fanatic

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    @BlueMtnBeachVagrant I believe the below quote is accurate. I also believe those who supported HB631 laid the path that had to be followed to contest it. That said, as I have said all along the courts will have to decide. For those who oppose customary use, it would seem reasonable that if a Compromise was going to be offered it would come from those who oppose it. Have I missed a compromise offer?
     
  11. Dave Rauschkolb

    Dave Rauschkolb Beach Fanatic

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    Is it really behavior that caused the CU vs Private beach issue?
     
  12. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Stone Cold J, great effort but not sure realistic in the current Walton CU social media, political, and legal environment. The Mean High Water Line-in-the-sand has been drawn by the elected Walton Commissioners declared all private property available to the public without due process. Then decided to litigate against all 1,200 private beachfront parcels and 4,600+ property owners. From Public Records Walton has already spent almost a MILLION dollars in legal fees and the legal proceedings (the expensive part) have not even begun. Encouraged by Walton Commissioners litigation (beside it is not the Commissioner’s personal money; it’s all Walton tax payer dollars) the anti-social media masses created not-credible misinformation based on social media personal beliefs and not the law for their war on private property rights and created all this ill will and beachfront owners, even the owners like me who have for decades shared their private beach with other, are angry and aren’t going to take it any more.

    #1. Everyone can already walk all 825 miles of Florida’s “foreshore”, swim, fish, surface, collect shells, take pictures, etc and on all 26 miles of Walton tidal coastline between the MHWL and MLWL or foreshore. There are 59 Walton public beach accesses. Some accesses are for pedestrian easements only to the foreshore, Like at Dune Allen’s Vizcaya, and some are Government owned available to the public park and occupy the dry sand not allocated to commercial beach vendors by the Walton TDC. But at no time is crossing a private home’s property north to south to reach the beach legal or acceptable.

    If you mean an ordinance for uninvited persons to traverse private property dry sand or occupy private property or not; Walton Commissioners already did that, without due process, with their April 1, 2017 CU ordinance. I'd guess would still have property Constitutional issues even if local elected officials would prohibit occupying private property, which is already the law unless invited by the owner. The Florida legislature super majority rebuked Walton's lack of due process and enacted FS163.035 to ensure no other FL county did what Walton did by declaring private property available to the public without due process in court as the Plaintiff FIRST.

    #2. Agree but how about use the millions instead on CU litigation, that may lose, to expand infrastructure to meet the current and expected growth, despite the baseless Ghost Town without-CU predictions, in south Walton.

    #3. TDC annual $20,000,000 tourist bed tax can only be spent on beach related projects by law. Not roads, restrooms, water treatment public work projects. The TDC has the second largest number of employees and I suggest cutting TDC bed tax by 1/4th so those tourist dollars are spent in the local economy; not inefficient or wasteful government spending. TDC should stop marketing private beaches and should educate the public about where public and private beaches are, acceptable behavior and increased beach enforcement. TDC tourist tax marketing benefits the beach side businesses; if those business think $20,000,000 is a good return on the money let the beach-side business fund the marketing.

    Keep thinking but understand today’s realities as been described in this thread's 580+ posts.
    Might ask what bob bob what has he contributed to the solution too. I didn’t find one credible post in the 11 posts on this thread.

    What do you have to contribute to the solution, or do you like to be part of the problem?
    Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
    "30A" people are greedy, entitled, spoiled... A different breed.
    Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
    SoWal Rules!
    Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
    Let's drop this stupid argument.
    Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
    Why would they [beachfront owners] give a damn
    Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
    Beach front owners will get tired of spending money and fighting and will move on or fight a dumb never ending battle against millions.
    Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
    Take candy from a baby and you might get some sad babies.
    Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
    orange clown [Donald Trump]
    Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
    gotta lay down on the beach in the warm sun and relax.
    Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
    Dumb argument.
    Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
    So scary you are.
    Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  13. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Bob, FS163.035 has noting to do with public CU activities on private property but private property due process rights.
    IMO you have it backwards. The burden of proof is rightly on the Plaintiff for public customary use of private property, Walton County Commissioners. Commissioners should have thought about other solutions before litigation an archaic English doctrine of custom with 4,600 American beachfront owners. The Defendants, beachfront owners, have to prove nothing nor are obligated to offer any compromise of their Constitutional protected property rights.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  14. Bob Wells

    Bob Wells Beach Fanatic

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    So your belief is it is Walton County's obligation to propose a compromise? I think Lakeview point has merit more so now. Can't be a compromise IMO unless it is going to come from those BFOs cause the State has given the County no other option. Of course I don't claim any specific legal knowledge so this is certainly my opinion.
     
  15. Lake View Too

    Lake View Too SoWal Insider

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    Dave Rauchsholb is offering a compromise that is essential "let's work together to stop bad beach behavior (tourists, locals, BFO's vendors)" in exchange for BFO's withdrawing their legal objections to the continuity of customary use. This has been his position for many years now. He was advocating a robust Beach Ambassadors program that failed to get much backing from the BBC or TDC. (Dave, I hope I'm paraphrasing you properly - I'm not a member of any of these groups.)
     
  16. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    No, why should BFO compromise their Constitutional rights? Unsure how else to put it. BFO are the defendants, and have nothing to prove or property rights they have had and have today, to compromise. Walton Commissioners did not have to litigate and cost Walton taxpayers MILLIONS but could have offered solutions acceptable to BFO; Commissioners did not. I'm comfortable with and have enough faith in the Constitution and rule of law to risk my own money protecting my property rights. Why should I compromise my property rights?
    Again trading beach enforcement for private property rights is a compromise? Beach enforcement is the civil duty of the TDC and Commissioner regardless of property rights or public use of private property. You (not you personally) lost me at "Your Sand is My Sand" and not interested.
     
  17. Bob Wells

    Bob Wells Beach Fanatic

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    Ok. I guess the Courts will decide. I will even go a step further, if Walton was to seek a compromise as you feel they should, I feel it weakens their case, just my opinion. I would also venture to guess based on your comment, the BFOs would also be weakening their case and it is not in their best interest to compromise. That said 631 leaves the County no alternative but to go to court. All my opinion.

     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  18. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    And the Walton tax payer will pay millions .... and may get nothing but 650+ beachfront owner's legal fees.
    I NEVER said Walton should offer compromise! Your guess is as good as mine if compromise would weaken either parties' case. Again Defendant beachfront owners do not have to do anything and do not have to make a case. The County as Plaintiff always has alternatives. Destin in 2002 had alternatives and made different choices. Withdrawing the case and entering into discussions with each property owner they are claiming public customary use of their property is an option.
    It's easy to have opinions when you have no real-property skin in the game.
    CUnCourt.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  19. Poppaj

    Poppaj Beach Fanatic

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    It’s worth it.
     
  20. Lake View Too

    Lake View Too SoWal Insider

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    Let me see if I got this right: The BFO's could save themselves hundreds of thousands of dollars each, and save the taxpayers of Walton County MILLIONS of dollars by simply withdrawing their countersuits, and letting the judicial system, that was established by HB631, run it's course. And all this waste of money is because of Bad Beach Behavior. And the most prominent proponents of continuing customary use have pledged to establish a robust system of preventing Bad Beach Behavior, but that ain't good enough for you. Sounds like this isn't about Bad Beach Behavior...
     
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