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Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Reggie Gaskins avatar
Beach Lover
526,501 views2
upload_2019-4-25_8-30-52.jpeg
When you see a PCB or Destin bumper sticker, what thought immediately comes to mind? Probably same for all of us with any time spent here - nice, but it ain’t 30A! Do you remember why you started renting/visiting here? What was it? Remember when you bought your first 30A property? Why here?
Because it was DIFFERENT, right? Remember the words you used to describe it to family and friends as you invited them here? “Private” “Quiet” “Intimate” “Less crowded”. That wasn’t by accident. The entire genetic code of Sowal beaches is because of the private ownership and neighborhood beach personalities.
You could rent “private beach”. You could buy “private beach”. There wasn’t a free for all frat party atmosphere because of unlimited public beach access on the sands. That behavior was regulated by the privately owned property where such behavior was immediately squelched. And yet, by custom, no one was ever “Kicked off” of private beaches because owners don’t do that unless bad actors abuse the privilege.
Walton County has always had more than 50% PUBLIC beach. Still does. That hasn’t changed. There are now deliberately misleading fear tactics out there with scary words like “Quiet Title” and “Privatization”, neither of which have affected one single square inch of public beach, not one. Yet, the mob mentality, orchestrated by local carnival barkers eager for fame and notoriety, and dollars, have mislead the citizens and deliberately tried to divide the community in a shell game of Customary Use.
The fact is that the county outran the capabilities of local Commissioners to plan for growth 20 years ago, and we haven’t improved that talent to deal with it even yet. So the County, in failing to plan beach availability, tried to illegally claim private property as public, without following the laws requiring judicial oversight. The local Good Ol’ Boys overreached their authority and got caught by the adults in Tallahassee. So they then decides to sue 4,800 of Sowal citizens to take their property. That’s right, your tax money is being spent, and a lot of it, to SUE almost 5,000 of your neighbors, and steal what they agreed to purchase at a premium, and have a deed to prove it.
Don’t blame them please, they didn’t want or ask for this fight. They live here and care for these beaches just like you and me. Go meet them, they are truly the eclectic fabric of 30A. The signs they had to put up are just in defense of this new orchestrated public attack against them.
The bottom line is this: The minute you release the public to occupy all of Sowal beaches, you IMMEDIATELY get nasty Destin and PCB problems. How will you feel about that 30A sticker then? Nostalgic? Me too.

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Replies

2,312
bob bob avatar
Beach Fanatic
#602
In case you hadn't noticed, Fbook just confirms the fact that every American is stuck in high school or middle school.
FloridaBeachBum avatar
Beach Fanatic
#603
In case you hadn't noticed, Fbook just confirms the fact that every American is stuck in high school or middle school.
We'll add that insightful response and LV2's "Like" to the list of your 12 other posts on this thread that have "contributed to the solution".
Because I'd guess you don't want to be "part of the problem" with no facts or credible information or beliefs.
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy

Edited

PoppaJ avatar
SoWal Insider
#604
You’re keeping a list?:blink:
kayti elliott avatar
Beach Lover
#605
Calm down Francis. :rolleyes:
Who is Francis?
Lake View Too avatar
SoWal Insider
#606
Pardon me for having an opinion. What do you suggest I do to solve the problem? Call up Judge Green and plead that he rules your way? If you think this thread is in any way solving the problem, you are seriously deluded. You have done nothing but denigrate a whole community of people who have absolutely no control over the outcome of this whatsoever. If you are trying to change people’s hearts and minds, it is an epic fail.
PoppaJ avatar
SoWal Insider
#607
Who is Francis?
Francis Sawyer
FloridaBeachBum avatar
Beach Fanatic
#608
You’re keeping a list?:blink:
Want to keep it factual and give bob bob and LV2 credit where credit is due for the depth and breath of their contributions to the solutions. Would not be factual if I posted he only had 2 posts that were in-credible.
What do you suggest I do to solve the problem? Call up Judge Green and plead that he rules your way?
First you have to identify the legitimate problem with facts and informed decisions before anyone can solve anything. How about call the Walton Commissioners and tell them to find a solution other than litigation. How about demanding antisocial media leaders stop the misinformation and encouraging the BFO vitriol. That'd be a start. But you have to do you own fact finding first and not rely on antisocial media star's baseless misinformation. As long as one person or BFO understands the facts - that's why me and others shine the light of truth on the gibberish.

Edited

FloridaBeachBum avatar
Beach Fanatic
#609
Who is Francis?
Another bob bob conspiracy theory lost on almost everyone including me too. bob bob thought me and Fact or Fiction was Huckabee too.
Lake View Too avatar
SoWal Insider
#610
Want to keep it factual and give bob bob and LV2 credit where credit is due for the depth and breath of their contributions to the solutions. Would not be factual if I posted he only had 2 posts that were in-credible.

First you have to identify the legitimate problem with facts and informed decisions before anyone can solve anything. How about call the Walton Commissioners and tell them to find a solution other than litigation. How about demanding antisocial media leaders stop the misinformation and encouraging the BFO vitriol. That'd be a start. But you have to do you own fact finding first.
Now I’m really confused. I thought you would want litigation to have a judicial decision to “solve” this forever.
FloridaBeachBum avatar
Beach Fanatic
#611
Now I’m really confused. I thought you would want litigation to have a judicial decision to “solve” this forever.
If litigation is what it takes - BRING IT ON. BFOs are the Defendants in a de novo CU litigation. Commissioners have the burden of proof. It is all or nothing. If BFOs prevail we likely get our legal fees back from the Walton tax payers and I for one will not share our private beachfront as we have for many decades. Clear?

Edited

FloridaBeachBum avatar
Beach Fanatic
#6121
It’s interesting that 1974 Tona-Rama lost its public prescriptive easement of private property case in the FSC and that the judges' vote were 3 concurred, 2 dissents, and one could not make up his mind and split his vote. 3.5 to 2.5?
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy

Florida in 1974, had been since statehood, was a decidedly a political Democratic state then. I wonder if the US SC had reviewed Tona-Rama how that would have turned out? Hopefully if we need to; we’ll find out. Today, 2019, Florida is not a progressive Democratic state. We just made career Florida Democratic politician, Bill Nelson, unemployed. Hopefully the courts will interpret the law and Constitution and not make law up as they go; like in Tona-Rama.
bill-nelson-in-walton-county Vizcaya.jpg

Edited

BlueMtnBeachVagrant avatar
Beach Fanatic
#613
If litigation is what it takes - BRING IT ON. BFOs are the Defendants in a de novo CU litigation. Commissioners have the burden of proof. It is all or nothing. If BFOs prevail we likely get our legal fees back from the Walton tax payers and I for one will not share our private beachfront as we have for many decades. Clear?
I’ll take a wild a$$ guess and say there are at least 650 parcel owners who totally concur.
PoppaJ avatar
SoWal Insider
#614
If litigation is what it takes - BRING IT ON. BFOs are the Defendants in a de novo CU litigation. Commissioners have the burden of proof. It is all or nothing. If BFOs prevail we likely get our legal fees back from the Walton tax payers and I for one will not share our private beachfront as we have for many decades. Clear?
And if CU prevails you will still be looking at the same beach on the same water as you do now and will be welcome to use it as before.
Auburn Fan avatar
Beach Lover
#615
And if CU prevails you will still be looking at the same beach on the same water as you do now and will be welcome to use it as before.

Exactly who do you mean would be welcoming a BFO to enjoy his own private property?

Additionally, who is going to manage the density in order to adequately protect the entire sensitive beach ecosystem as well as preserve the unique beach experience that distinguishes Walton County beaches from our neighboring counties? You know, the whole reason why people choose to live and vacation here in the first place, instead of Okaloosa or Bay County.
PoppaJ avatar
SoWal Insider
#616
Exactly who do you mean would be welcoming a BFO to enjoy his own private property?

Additionally, who is going to manage the density in order to adequately protect the entire sensitive beach ecosystem as well as preserve the unique beach experience that distinguishes Walton County beaches from our neighboring counties? You know, the whole reason why people choose to live and vacation here in the first place, instead of Okaloosa or Bay County.
All the people setting up for day would welcome them, aka “their new friends.”
News flash, people also choose to live and vacation in Okaloosa and Bay county instead of here.

Edited

Beach Lover
#617
All the people setting up for day would welcome them, aka “their new friends.”
News flash, people also choose to live and vacation in Okaloosa and Bay county instead of here.
Perhaps a silly question, but would not a significant amount of the access to the beach issue go away if the County didn’t give away 50% of the public beaches (how many miles?) to vendors? Disclosure - we are full timers, but do not own beach front. Would this not free up a tremendous amount of space for locals and tourists to set up in great locations at no cost?
FloridaBeachBum avatar
Beach Fanatic
#6185
Are you talking about these new friends? Regardless of private property rights or public customary use of property the Walton Commissioners have the civic duty and responsibility to all Walton citizens to police and enforce bad behavior on the beach. If a proposed “compromise” for BFO’s is to give up their Constitutionally protected property rights they have had since 1776 and have today for beach behavior enforcement the inept Walton Commissioners’ already have a civil duty to do; good try FBFA, BFOs are smarter than that.

CU is only about legal property rights. Any thing else is politics; so far decades of bad politics and the Walton commissioners' shifting the burden to BFOs for their failure to manage supply & demand and growth. I think there is enough demand if people choose less crowded public beaches in neighboring counties. Just look at the bed taxes collected. Up 17.8%. By the way Okaloosa and Bay counties along with 65, other Florida counties do not have a public customary use of private property ordinance.
Report: Walton County top-performing local economy in Florida. Apr 5, 2019

Besides police can’t enforce respect, consideration, and decency for others. Like beach spreading and beach cities (or antisocial media campaigns). Although private property owners can if the Sheriff would do his duty and enforce the laws as written and stop making up not legal property boundaries’ like the “wet sand”.
beachfriends1.jpg beachfriends2.jpg
beachfriends4Destin.jpg


Other states like NJ have passed ordinances for Beach Spreading. A symptom of “Tragedy of the [Beach] Commons”.
beachfriends6NJ.jpg
beachfriends7gator.jpg I just liked this beach photo.

Edited

Reggie Gaskins avatar
Beach LoverAuthor
#619
Perhaps a silly question, but would not a significant amount of the access to the beach issue go away if the County didn’t give away 50% of the public beaches (how many miles?) to vendors? Disclosure - we are full timers, but do not own beach front. Would this not free up a tremendous amount of space for locals and tourists to set up in great locations at no cost?
Yes Charles. This single vendor problem resolution would return much more than 50% of lost public beach - right back to citizens and tourists, immediately. This proposal has been suggested to CU proponents, WCBC, and gets deleted from the anti social media pages of Walton County every time the math is displayed. It wouldn't cost county or tax payers a dime. It wouldn't require a multimillion dollar/multi year lawsuit. It wouldn't tear the community apart. You are a smart man. Why do you think then, that community "Leaders" bury this obvious solution every time it comes up, and choose to attack and sue innocent property owners instead? Any guesses?
PoppaJ avatar
SoWal Insider
#620
Perhaps a silly question, but would not a significant amount of the access to the beach issue go away if the County didn’t give away 50% of the public beaches (how many miles?) to vendors? Disclosure - we are full timers, but do not own beach front. Would this not free up a tremendous amount of space for locals and tourists to set up in great locations at no cost?
I’ve always felt that the county should build well designed kiosks at the beach and either rent or hold a new auction each season for their use by vendors. No setups until the customer comes to the kiosk to rent the chairs, umbrellas, etc. to be self setup or have an attendant set them up. No more morning staking out of large amounts of beach real estate by vendors. The newly rented chairs would be placed among all other beach goers.
Beach Lover
#621
I read the Walton County Ordinance 2019-05 (updated Beach Activities Ordinance) and on Page 11 Item R, states "It shall be unlawful to place beach equipment on the beach within fifteen (15) feet of the water's edge or within fifteen feet (15) of the toe of the dune or line of permanent dune vegetation on any regional or neighborhood beach access."

Does that mean at Ed Walline Regional Beach access NO chairs can be within 15 feet of the water's edge, or does that apply only to Vendor chairs? Does that also apply along the entire coast line or just the public beach?
FloridaBeachBum avatar
Beach Fanatic
#622
I read the Walton County Ordinance 2019-05 (updated Beach Activities Ordinance) and on Page 11 Item R, states "It shall be unlawful to place beach equipment on the beach within fifteen (15) feet of the water's edge or within fifteen feet (15) of the toe of the dune or line of permanent dune vegetation on any regional or neighborhood beach access."

Does that mean at Ed Walline Regional Beach access NO chairs can be within 15 feet of the water's edge, or does that apply only to Vendor chairs? Does that also apply along the entire coast line or just the public beach?
Definition. "Beach equipment means items generally used for swimming, sunbathing or beach recreation, including, but not limited to, beach chairs, umbrellas, tents, hammocks and volleyball nets."

Walton has NEVER enforced this. Should be deleted if Commissioners won't enforce it for everyone on public beaches. Note many "neighborhood" accesses are private property easements for public pedestrian crossing to the foreshore only; like at Vizcaya.
That's also why Chair vendors can not setup on Vizcaya's 33 foot pedestrian easement too.
Board of County Commissioners on 2019-03-26 9:00 AM - Regular Meeting - Mar 26th, 2019 << Must see TV. Video time 1:08:39 Walton TDC Beach Director Brian Kellenberger. Click and press video play.

Not sure Commissioners can use police powers to direct private property owners where they can recreate on their own property. That would be another litigation I'd guess. Like the 2017-05 private property signs and First Amendment litigation BFO prevailed against Commissioners. Cost Commissioners $185,000 in BFOs legal fees as I recall.
That's why 2019-05 Sec 22-55 Obstructions does not include signs like previous beach ordinances.

I made the same point in previous posts but ordinance section is meaningless. Good catch.
Customary Use of SoWal Beaches: Contact Governor Scott
Code Enforcement At Eastern Lake Today
Code Enforcement At Eastern Lake Today
Customary Use Will Happen On Sowal Beaches

Edited

Beach Lover
#623
Walton has NEVER enforced this. Should be deleted if Commissioners won't enforce it for everyone on public beaches.

Should people call Code Enforcement or the Sheriff if Chair Vendors (or anyone else according to the wording) sets up within 15' of the water's edge on County property? Is the line from high tide, or low tide, or from anywhere the water edge is located while the chair is set up? What if someone sets up a chair and umbrella 15' from the water at low tide, must they move it back when the tide comes in so they are still 15' from water's edge at any time? What if someone is already set up behind them? Must the people behind them also move to make room or just the Vendors (or public) move their chairs to the back of the line? Has this ever been enforced? What if people refuse to move? If this has never been enforced does that mean any county ordinances can be ignored by Chair Vendors? Does that mean the Public can also ignore the ordinances? Does that conflict with the Sherriff telling people to set up chairs in the wet sand or does the Sherriff only mean only the wet sand along the coast line and not county property like Ed Walline? My questions have NOTHING to do with CU. I am asking about the ordinance on public property. The same wording is in the 2017 County Ordinance. Modern beach ordinance would overrule what people might have done 50-100 years ago on public property (like horses, cars, bonfires, overnight tent camping or even nude beaches).
FloridaBeachBum avatar
Beach Fanatic
#624
Should people call Code Enforcement or the Sheriff if Chair Vendors (or anyone else according to the wording) sets up within 15' of the water's edge on County property?
Great questions for the Walton Commissioners! First question is easy - code enforcement, not the Sheriff. Let us know how that goes. Let us know what commissioners say; if you can get a reply from any of them, much less all of them. They don't like to answer hard questions that don't make them look good. The Sheriff has a duty to follow the letter of the law and not make up law because it's hard to enforce - like "wet sand", legally defined MHWL, property boundaries. Government owned beachfront that the public can use also have a MHWL; not wet sand, property boundary.

I understand questions not CU related but the common denominator is the decades of inept Commissioners misunderstanding of the public supple & demand beach problem and failing to do their civil duty for all Walton citizens - including BFOS. Let's make the TDC stop marketing until infrastructure is fixed and stop the Commissioners from taxing tourist another 1% (5% total) and let those dollars go back into the local economy to grow jobs, not Commissioners' future campaign slogans.

Edited

Kurt avatar
Admin
#625
Reggie Gaskins crossed a line in a post and broke a forum rule. The post was deleted and he was given a temporary ban. A few people who have been banned have been allowed to reurn since the forum started in 2003. Sometimes things get heated and people act like jerks and then later cool off and show humility. He emailed sort of an apology, but also making accusations and giving instruction. [Let's just say he sucks at apologies. :lol: ]

Our rules are simple. If you can't follow them you will be asked nicely to leave, or you may be banned. It rarely happens. From an admin perspective, In the context of fair play and open mindedness, I am not concerned which side of an issue you are on. I am only concerned that you follow rules and treat people here with respect. We are proud of what our community has built here and worked hard to nourish it. Mostly the forum is self-moderated by the members. Don't hesitate to call someone out in a respectful way if they cross a line, and/or do it by direct message (conversation feature / private message).
SoWal forum rules & general info

Having said that, a bit if extra leeway is usually given to heated topics. Most members understand this. Please stick to attacking the topic and not the people. If a thread gets off course it may be locked, or moved to the lounge where heated controversy and griping/venting belong.

Thank you!
BlueMtnBeachVagrant avatar
Beach Fanatic
#626
.....and he was given a temporary ban.
Just curious, how long?

I am only concerned that you follow rules and treat people here with respect. We are proud of what our community has built here and worked hard to nourish it. Mostly the forum is self-moderated by the members.
I’ve always imagined conversation at your dinner table must get very interesting at times. :)

BTW, personally speaking, I’ve always appreciated the information, both opinions and facts, that are afforded here. It’s the intentional mistruths and hypocrisy that offend me more than anything.

Suggestion: A post of mine was deleted a few weeks ago (“threatened” banning my account). I could not even remember what I even posted that could have crossed the line. You know, my memory is not so good since I’m getting older and using words like malarkey. Would it be possible to include the deleted post in a private message so that we can better understand where this “line” actually is relative to the thread and the heat of the moment? I truly have no idea what I said.

As mentioned, I wasn’t personally offended when called an ahole by LVT. But if the situation was reversed, would my account be banned? That’s probably more of a rhetorical question.

Thanks!

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