Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. miznotebook

    miznotebook Beach Fanatic

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    The county attorney stated last May that if the property is less than five acres and contains a single-family home, a property owner is not required to post any markers in order for low enforcement personnel to enforce trespassing violations.
     
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  2. jodiFL

    jodiFL Beach Fanatic

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    Correct..that is in keeping with FL Statue Chapter 810.
     
  3. Rachael Ashman McKee

    Rachael Ashman McKee Beach Comber

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    Thank you. But the discourse comes from the beginning of signs due to the WCSO SOP of2015.
     
  4. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Bob, there are 4,671 beachfront owners including condos and HOAs owners with beachfront for members and there are about 1,200 private property parcels; including some parcels that are not beachfront like Dave Rauschkolb’s Dragonsky Fly LLC in Seaside that Walton gave notice they were being litigated against.

    Could not have said it better than Fact or Fiction [Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy], BlueMtnBeachVag (who has been posting on SoWal since 2006?) [Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy], and Reggie Gaskins [Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy].

    You are more informed than most and you have made your position known that you support customary use of private property before. I’d guess many of the 4,671 beachfront owners are not as familiar with the ancient English (not American) doctrine of customary use and only hear the intentional misinformation and unsupported opinions in the public square. Owners read little to none factual information from the local “news” papers and CU FB. Many owners do not want to be on Facebook or social media because of the vitriol and unsupported (intentional?) misinformation. If just one of those 4,671 owners learn sometime from a property owner with real property skin in the game, that'd be great. Thanks to SoWal for the forum to do that.

    I do want to know why someone disagrees with the data and facts; or what data or facts do you have for quiet title, dry beach is worthless and not taxed, etc. but all I hear in response is you’re out numbered, you have alternative facts (whatever that is), stop, emotional unsupported opinions, and it will be decided in the courts.

    I agree it makes no difference here who is right or wrong. It’s about factual information, some knowledge of the law, and pointing out the misinformation. So I will not be silenced. If you don’t want to read it; don’t and CUnCourt.
     
  5. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    What I said was 30A private properties (east of Topsail State Park) have NEVER had tax payer dredged sand added to private property or an ECL established.
    Your question, has this (Vizcaya) always been private or free of recorded ownership? Do you mean never owned by a Governmental entity? Do you want to go back to before there was a USA? I’m not an attorney. Lets discuss only USA since 1776 land patents, not the other multiple foreign countries who claimed land in North America before 1776 or before 1492.

    There were US Government Florida land patents in Walton that included all property rights, including littoral rights. Or alternatively, did not exclude any real property rights. Florida defined the littoral property boundaries of the Gulf as the MHWL.

    Do a title search if anyone wants to know the title back to the USA land patents. I’ve provided the plat - someone can do the title search from there and let us know if public custom or easements are included. The many Walton beachfront title searches I’ve seen back to the land patents include all real-property rights, including littoral rights and do not include easements or custom rights. If anything like other Walton beachfront title searches back to the USA land patents I’d guess Vizcaya title to 1,036 feet of beachfront has always been privately owned to the MHWL. The owner who platted Vizcaya included a public easement for access (not occupy) to the foreshore (the sand between the MHWL and MLWL). The plat shows a 33 foot and a 68 foot “Beach Access Easement” and “this dedication shall not create any rights of the public of the property shown on the plat ...”.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  6. Bob Wells

    Bob Wells Beach Fanatic

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    You are correct and because it is going to the Court I have bowed out of the conversation. I have also said that as the Courts will be deciding I will be accepting of that decision.

     
  7. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Thanks Bob. Seriously. Stay in the conversation. I think you just have a different perspective than beachfront owners with real-property skin in the game. Many just want to know what legal or factual basis do you or anyone support the legal doctrine of private property customary use? "Just because I believe it" is not a very supportable (or valid legal) answer. Fact or Fiction did say something about debates that made me dream.

    Me and James Lince in an on-line debate of property rights and the history and doctrine of custom in Walton County with Dave Rauschkolb and Daniel Uhlfelder and an impartial 3 judicial judge panel. Winner take all!

    Walton’s attorney David Theriaque makes $425 and hour. There are about 25 owner attorneys making lets say $400 and hour ($10,000 and hour). If private property owners prevail; could save Walton tax payers million$.

    Alas I guess we will have to pay our attorney surrogates to debate for us. CUnCourt.

    To find out more about property rights and customary use misinformation go to the, open for anyone and be respectful, Florida Coastal Property Rights FB page.
    Florida Coastal Property Rights
    or read James Lince opinions based on the law and verifiable facts about common customary use misinformation. For the full post go to FCPR FB.
    James Lince Rebuttal.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  8. bob bob

    bob bob Beach Fanatic

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    No one is required to put up a sign on the beach. EVER. Let's drop this stupid argument. We are not idiots.
     
  9. Reggie Gaskins

    Reggie Gaskins Beach Lover

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    Objective discussion happening. Love it. Bob Wells, we all agree, we will all be governed by litigation outcome. Think about this y’all; We continue to state facts here because the entire CU public argument is based on mistruths. Imagine this - A court decision not favorable to CU, which is what I predict. Will the public truly accept it without knowing these facts? We all know what that nightmare looks like, don’t we? See more detailed factual CU discussion at Editor's Opinion: Maybe Political Satire isn't for you? Or Maybe it's just for you!
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  10. MRBS

    MRBS Beach Lover

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    Seems that the thrust of that blog article at Editor's Opinion: Maybe Political Satire isn't for you? Or Maybe it's just for you! is that the ugly signs, chains, etc., are expression of political satire. Really? Or is that satire also? I get the feeling that the folks opposed to CU in this thread are just trying to goad pro CU folks into making comments that can be used in the opposition's lawsuit. Maybe not but I have a suspicious mind.
     
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  11. Reggie Gaskins

    Reggie Gaskins Beach Lover

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    Me thinks you indeed have suspicious mind.
    The Logic in the article is this - PP signs are a result of #occupythebeach militant activists threatening homeowners. It was a defensive move against a mob offense.
     
  12. FactorFiction

    FactorFiction Beach Fanatic

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    For what it's worth, MRBS, there are whole pages/groups of things that CU folks have already said on social media. Nobody needs to keep stirring the pot to get people on either side to say derogatory things. I thought the satire article was very interesting. I'm not a fan of satire because of the shaming intent, but I do enjoy facts and constructively expressed opinions. I found both in that article.
     
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  13. FactorFiction

    FactorFiction Beach Fanatic

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    Saw an expanded version of this message on twitter. It resonated with me:

    One the most precious and rare gifts we can give each other is to actually listen without bias. People have a need to be heard and listened to.

    It goes both ways and here on SOWAL, we have that opportunity. Let's don't take it for granted. You never know, we might learn something.
     
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  14. Rachael Ashman McKee

    Rachael Ashman McKee Beach Comber

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    It is dropped. And I’m sorry if my post implied that you or anyone are idiots. That was not my intention
     
  15. FactorFiction

    FactorFiction Beach Fanatic

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    Consider the source, Rachael. Some people just cannot be polite if their life depended on it.:dunno:
     
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  16. L.C. Bane

    L.C. Bane Beach Fanatic

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    Something doesn't feel right about this entire thread. Can't put my finger on it but it doesn't seem genuine for some reason. Reads more like a game of chess rather than a discussion. Lots of subtle taunts and manipulation.
     
  17. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    "goad pro CU folks into making comments that can be used in the opposition's lawsuit." Manipulation? How and for what purpose? As Fact or Fiction said there is noting more those opposed to property rights can do except tear down private property signs or act on social media video allegedly showing harm to beachfront owners.
     
  18. Lake View Too

    Lake View Too SoWal Insider

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    Yes, you are right. Teresa said it correctly a long time ago. It's propaganda. It's gaslighting. Beginning with the bogus title of the thread and continuing with a barrage of misinformation, it is quite reminiscent of Nazi tactics used to dominate the media. No wait, I'm going to take that back. Definitely not Nazi. No way. Just bloviating and badgering.
     
  19. FactorFiction

    FactorFiction Beach Fanatic

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    Thanks for adding to my vocabulary! Unfortunately, since the word bloviating has an inherent negativity to it, I probably won't get many opportunities to use it. I try to treat people the way I would like to be treated. Demeaning and derogatory communications don't work very well for me. I still appreciate learning a new word though.
     
  20. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

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    TOO MUCH!!!

    If this were a chess game, it would have been over a long time ago as chess doesn’t depend on bluff or “emotion” as does poker.

    To me, this thread has been more about the way BFOs have been disrespected with such ill-will and misinformation by the “carnival barkers” mentioned in post #1 as well as others.

    Still, to continue beating a dead horse (which is actually still kicking BTW), nobody here will acknowledge the most egregious thing a person can say about a group of people...that they acted like Nazis (“Jewish grandparents immigrated to this country because of oppression like this.”) Again this was comparing “oppression” to BFOs protecting their private property.

    Until one of you guys on the CU side admit that this was a pretty lowly statement from Daniel Uhlfelder, all the “disagrees” and “dislikes” mean ZERO. Somebody needs to speak up against this, not just me. If not, it speaks volumes about our community and human nature.

    So far, Dave Rauschkolb has chosen not to do so. Speaking of chess games, I wonder why?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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