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FactorFiction

Beach Fanatic
Feb 18, 2016
494
409
I ask again, is this really about behavior on the beaches? Or, is it about private property rights zealots pushing to exclude people from the beaches? Records are records; they can’t be altered or influenced. Has anyone looked back over the last 10 years to see how many complaints have occurred to the sheriff’s department or code enforcement from beachfront owners about behavior on the beaches? I know the answer. Do you?
Dave, I understand why you question this, but I'm absolutely comfortable that a lot of it was behavior and density driven. If you go to meetings, you know how often variances and waivers are allowed, so density is an issue between the number of residences built (and perhaps put on weekly rental) and over 4 MILLION visitors. Take a representative sample and tell me how many people out of 4 Million don't think the rules apply to them or have no idea what the rules are. It's not that hard to understand.
 

FactorFiction

Beach Fanatic
Feb 18, 2016
494
409
Dave, let me give you an example: You own multiple restaurants. You cater to the public. In your restaurants, I imagine that you expect a certain level of decorum from your guests. You definitely have a maximum capacity. If, for whatever reason, your guests exceed your capacity, then they have to wait. If they become disruptive to your place of business or other clientele, but not to the point of criminal or illegal behavior, you have the right to intervene to correct the behavior, BUT.....if the behavior doesn't change, you have the right to ask them to leave and then get enforcement if they refuse. Seems fair to me. Also seems fair for BFO to have similar rights.
 

customary user

Beach Comber
Jul 2, 2009
44
4
Dave, let me give you an example: You own multiple restaurants. You cater to the public. In your restaurants, I imagine that you expect a certain level of decorum from your guests. You definitely have a maximum capacity. If, for whatever reason, your guests exceed your capacity, then they have to wait. If they become disruptive to your place of business or other clientele, but not to the point of criminal or illegal behavior, you have the right to intervene to correct the behavior, BUT.....if the behavior doesn't change, you have the right to ask them to leave and then get enforcement if they refuse. Seems fair to me. Also seems fair for BFO to have similar rights.
Not a great analogy. Can't compare a building full of eaters to millions of sun seekers that thousands of other businesses depend on. Beachfront is going to go to the "greater good" {money rules}.
 

FactorFiction

Beach Fanatic
Feb 18, 2016
494
409
Not a great analogy. Can't compare a building full of eaters to millions of sun seekers that thousands of other businesses depend on. Beachfront is going to go to the "greater good" {money rules}.
I get your point, but we also have 19 miles (excludes the state parks) for the sun seekers and they are not all here the same week. If we count the parks, we have 26 miles. Not a perfect analogy by any means, but I think reasonable people can see the point I'm making. Can't you?
 

Dave Rauschkolb

Beach Fanatic
Jul 13, 2005
1,006
790
Santa Rosa Beach
OK, Fact Or Fiction appreciate your point it is density driven and the concern is that there’s too many people and too many variances given. That’s why I worked very hard for three years with amazing people I am now lifelong friends with and are on both sides of the aisle and even this issue. And I spent nearly $40,000 of my own money to rally support to incorporate South Walton but those worried about taxes going up crushed that opportunity to have local representation. And some others who don’t want any control over development had a considerable influence as well.

The thing that bothers me is that those who are here and have theirs are trying to say I’ve got mine and we don’t want anybody else. Well, that’s not the way it works. Special places attract people and the people who invariably come require infrastructure and accommodations where they want to recreate. I’ve said it 1 million times “these are the good old days for the people just now moving here.”. Like in any city rules are created and enforcement is essential. If people don’t follow the rules and they are not enforced then there is anarchy. No one wants that so yes, we have to hold a representative officials accountable. However, changing the rules so drastically that it eliminates large swaths of the very reason why people come here is not acceptable under any conditions. I was the first person to step up and offer solutions that actually were adopted. I engaged with beachfront owners to try to solve the problem but the die was cast and they wanted the whole apple and they currently have it. I truly believe that it’s temporary though.

I’m willing to sit down and work on solutions and I appreciate the fact that you addressed to me civilly without attacking me. By nature I’m an out-of-the-box thinker and a problem solver but this recent legislation in my book was yes, criminal and drastic and way out of line. So, how do we walk that back and restore our beaches to some semblance of shareable order? I’m wide-open to suggestions that don’t include excluding the public from using the sandy parts of the beaches as long as they follow the rules.

One thing we seem to agree on is that the vending of Beach Chairs in the current incarnation has greatly exacerbated the problem and no vending should be allowed on any county public beaches the way it is currently set up. If someone wants to go to a county public beach and call up a phone number and have someone deliver some chairs and an umbrella in no specified zone that should be allowed, but only that. The rest of the county public beaches should be wide open for anyone to set up anywhere they wish; First come first served.

As I’ve said before I acknowledge private property but as long as people behave correctly on beach private property and follow whatever rules the county adopts then this truly could be solved.

So again, To speak to your point those 4 million visitors can easily be educated; The TDC has plenty of money to educate people about the rules.

Do we really want Walton county to be the county in America that set the precedent that privatized beaches across the Nation? Or, do we want to be the beach community that figured it out and worked out a fair solution? The only thing I’ve been uncompromising about is the ability of beachfront owners to exclude people from the sandy parts of the beach. There’s plenty of compromise when it comes to setting up rules on those sandy parts.

So I feel like I’ve given you a reasonable and respectful answer that offer solutions. And again, I appreciate the tenor of your response to my comments.


Very best regards,

Dave Rauschkolb
 
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Bob Wells

Beach Fanatic
Jul 25, 2008
3,465
1,434
I shared with someone recently that enforcement in Walton County sucks. I don't know the reason, politics, lack of established guidelines or if there is no appetite to enforce the rules.
OK, Fact Or Fiction appreciate your point it is density driven and the concern is that there’s too many people and too many variances given. That’s why I worked very hard for three years with amazing people I am now lifelong friends with and are on both sides of the aisle and even this issue. And I spent nearly $40,000 of my own money to rally support to incorporate South Walton but those worried about taxes going up crushed that opportunity to have local representation. And some others who don’t want any control over development had a considerable influence as well.

The thing that bothers me is that those who are here and have theirs are trying to say I’ve got mine and we don’t want anybody else. Well, that’s not the way it works. Special places attract people and the people who invariably come require infrastructure and accommodations where they want to recreate. I’ve said it 1 million times “these are the good old days for the people just now moving here.”. Like in any city rules are created and enforcement is essential. If people don’t follow the rules and they are not enforced then there is anarchy. No one wants that so yes, we have to hold a representative officials accountable. However, changing the rules so drastically that it eliminates large swaths of the very reason why people come here is not acceptable under any conditions. I was the first person to step up and offer solutions that actually were adopted. I engaged with beachfront owners to try to solve the problem but the die was cast and they wanted the whole apple and they currently have it. I truly believe that it’s temporary though.

I’m willing to sit down and work on solutions and I appreciate the fact that you addressed to me civilly without attacking me. By nature I’m an out-of-the-box thinker and a problem solver but this recent legislation in my book was yes, criminal and drastic and way out of line. So, how do we walk that back and restore our beaches to some semblance of shareable order? I’m wide-open to suggestions that don’t include excluding the public from using the sandy parts of the beaches as long as they follow the rules.

One thing we seem to agree on is that the vending of Beach Chairs in the current incarnation has greatly exacerbated the problem and no vending should be allowed on any county public beaches the way it is currently set up. If someone wants to go to a county public beach and call up a phone number and have someone deliver some chairs and an umbrella in no specified zone that should be allowed, but only that. The rest of the county public beaches should be wide open for anyone to set up anywhere they wish; First come first served.

As I’ve said before I acknowledge private property but as long as people behave correctly on beach private property and follow whatever rules the county adopts then this truly could be solved.

So again, To speak to your point those 4 million visitors can easily be educated; The TDC has plenty of money to educate people about the rules.

Do we really want Walton county to be the county in America that set the precedent that privatized beaches across the Nation? Or, do we want to be the beach community that figured it out and worked out a fair solution? The only thing I’ve been uncompromising about is the ability of beachfront owners to exclude people from the sandy parts of the beach. There’s plenty of compromise when it comes to setting up rules on those sandy parts.

So I feel like I’ve given you a reasonable and respectful answer that offer solutions. And again, I appreciate the tenor of your response to my comments.


Very best regards,

Dave Rauschkolb
 

FactorFiction

Beach Fanatic
Feb 18, 2016
494
409
OK, Fact Or Fiction appreciate your point it is density driven and the concern is that there’s too many people and too many variances given. That’s why I worked very hard for three years with amazing people I am now lifelong friends with and are on both sides of the aisle and even this issue. And I spent nearly $40,000 of my own money to rally support to incorporate South Walton but those worried about taxes going up crushed that opportunity to have local representation. And some others who don’t want any control over development had a considerable influence as well.

The thing that bothers me is that those who are here and have theirs are trying to say I’ve got mine and we don’t want anybody else. Well, that’s not the way it works. Special places attract people and the people who invariably come require infrastructure and accommodations where they want to recreate. I’ve said it 1 million times “these are the good old days for the people just now moving here.”. Like in any city rules are created and enforcement is essential. If people don’t follow the rules and they are not enforced then there is anarchy. No one wants that so yes, we have to hold a representative officials accountable. However, changing the rules so drastically that it eliminates large swaths of the very reason why people come here is not acceptable under any conditions. I was the first person to step up and offer solutions that actually were adopted. I engaged with beachfront owners to try to solve the problem but the die was cast and they wanted the whole apple and they currently have it. I truly believe that it’s temporary though.

I’m willing to sit down and work on solutions and I appreciate the fact that you addressed to me civilly without attacking me. By nature I’m an out-of-the-box thinker and a problem solver but this recent legislation in my book was yes, criminal and drastic and way out of line. So, how do we walk that back and restore our beaches to some semblance of shareable order? I’m wide-open to suggestions that don’t include excluding the public from using the sandy parts of the beaches as long as they follow the rules.

One thing we seem to agree on is that the vending of Beach Chairs in the current incarnation has greatly exacerbated the problem and no vending should be allowed on any county public beaches the way it is currently set up. If someone wants to go to a county public beach and call up a phone number and have someone deliver some chairs and an umbrella in no specified zone that should be allowed, but only that. The rest of the county public beaches should be wide open for anyone to set up anywhere they wish; First come first served.

As I’ve said before I acknowledge private property but as long as people behave correctly on beach private property and follow whatever rules the county adopts then this truly could be solved.

So again, To speak to your point those 4 million visitors can easily be educated; The TDC has plenty of money to educate people about the rules.

Do we really want Walton county to be the county in America that set the precedent that privatized beaches across the Nation? Or, do we want to be the beach community that figured it out and worked out a fair solution? The only thing I’ve been uncompromising about is the ability of beachfront owners to exclude people from the sandy parts of the beach. There’s plenty of compromise when it comes to setting up rules on those sandy parts.

So I feel like I’ve given you a reasonable and respectful answer that offer solutions. And again, I appreciate the tenor of your response to my comments.


Very best regards,

Dave Rauschkolb

I appreciate your response, Dave. As I'm sure you probably expected, I cannot speak for BFOs; however, I know quite a few BFOs who truly have no problem sharing their deeded beach areas with people who are "minimalists" (chair, umbrella, towel, small cooler-sole uses kind of people). When you say, "However, changing the rules so drastically that it eliminates large swaths of the very reason why people come here is not acceptable under any conditions. ," what are you referring to? I totally agree that setups, whether they be vendors or private citizens, without people using them are part of the problem. That is reserving the beach, not using it. First come, first served is a well understood policy and is perfectly appropriate for the beach. I cannot imagine another 5, 6, 7, 8 years or longer of the climate that currently exists in South Walton. At a minimum, it is important that we return to civility for our citizens and visitors. We all know the saying that beauty is only skin deep. We are fortunate and blessed to live in an extraordinarily beautiful place, but if the underlying current is ugly and hateful, it will still overcome the beauty in time.
 

Stone Cold J

Beach Lover
Jun 6, 2019
150
171
SRB
I ask again, is this really about behavior on the beaches? Or, is it about private property rights zealots pushing to exclude people from the beaches? Records are records; they can’t be altered or influenced. Has anyone looked back over the last 10 years to see how many complaints have occurred to the sheriff’s department or code enforcement from beachfront owners about behavior on the beaches? I know the answer. Do you?

The root of the problem is too many people in a sensitive ecosystem. Beach behavior is a symptom of the sense of entitlement and overcrowding. The rate of destruction of the 30A ecosystem will actually ACCELERATE if the BCC somehow manages to remove constitutional private property rights and turn our beaches into a free for all.
 
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BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,289
375
The only thing I’ve been uncompromising about is the ability of beachfront owners to exclude people from the sandy parts of the beach.

A couple of compromises I recently threw out involve continued control of private beaches.

1. Remember the one I mentioned where adjacent beach front owners could capitalize instead of being abused - the owners could benefit from public rental of setups on private property. This allows the owners to continue getting the front row seats while allowing the public to rent setups on the same private beach. And eliminate vending on the public accesses altogether. Again, everybody wins in this scenario.

2. And just recently I mentioned allowing the public to access the back part of the private beach along with some sort of compensation.

Zip, zilch, nada, nothing - no constructive commentary / reply in the least.

So combine this “disinterest” in compromise along with your comment above....my humble opinion is that private beach will continue to remain private for many more years. You don’t want to really budge, just control the behavior of tourists. And for that, you think BFOs should simply give up their legally titled and deeded private property and get overran by millions of tourists per year.

Won’t happen.
 

FloridaBeachBum

Beach Fanatic
Feb 9, 2017
463
112
Santa Rosa Beach
OK, Fact Or Fiction appreciate your point it is density driven and the concern is that there’s too many people and too many variances given.

However, changing the rules so drastically that it eliminates large swaths of the very reason why people come here is not acceptable under any conditions. I was the first person to step up and offer solutions that actually were adopted.

I’m willing to sit down and work on solutions and I appreciate the fact that you addressed to me civilly without attacking me. By nature I’m an out-of-the-box thinker and a problem solver but this recent legislation in my book was yes, criminal and drastic and way out of line. So, how do we walk that back and restore our beaches to some semblance of shareable order? I’m wide-open to suggestions that don’t include excluding the public from using the sandy parts of the beaches as long as they follow the rules.

As I’ve said before I acknowledge private property but as long as people behave correctly on beach private property and follow whatever rules the county adopts then this truly could be solved.

So again, To speak to your point those 4 million visitors can easily be educated; The TDC has plenty of money to educate people about the rules.

Do we really want Walton county to be the county in America that set the precedent that privatized beaches across the Nation? Or, do we want to be the beach community that figured it out and worked out a fair solution? The only thing I’ve been uncompromising about is the ability of beachfront owners to exclude people from the sandy parts of the beach. There’s plenty of compromise when it comes to setting up rules on those sandy parts.

So I feel like I’ve given you a reasonable and respectful answer that offer solutions. And again, I appreciate the tenor of your response to my comments.
Very best regards,
Dave Rauschkolb
Dave Rauschkolb, I appreciate a response without the CU rhetoric. I'm glad you are "willing to sit down and work on CU solutions". So am I and many BFOs. But you and other vocal CU advocates and self-described social-media CU warriors are not litigating against 1,193 beachfront parcels and 4,671 BFOs; Walton County Commissioners are, with millions of Walton tax payers dollars. Can you get the Commissioners to sit down with 4,671 not happy BFOs who many do not trust the Commissioners for a second; the way BFOs have been treated politically, legally, and by social media since 2015? Commissioner are reaping now what they sowed and CU social media have fertilized.

"... but this recent legislation [FS163.035] in my book was yes, criminal and drastic and way out of line." Criminal? That's drastic and dramatic; for a property owner Constitutional due-process law, don't you think?
Can you explain what is "criminal" about protecting property owner's "due-process" rights BEFORE claiming a property right of private enjoyment and use, that the SCOTUS has stated is ‘one of the most essential sticks in the bundle of rights that are commonly characterized as property.’ is null and void?

Describing a Florida statute voted for by 84% of the FL legislature, including local House Rep Brad Drake, and signed by the Governor, as "criminal" is not a great starting point for any discussion about public customary use of private property.

"restore our beaches to some semblance of shareable order?" First, the Commissioners and CU advocates like you have to respect and accept that private beachfront owners have the right to private use and enjoyment of the property they have title to and pay property taxes on - private property is not legally "shareable", just like every Walton private property owner. BFO's property just end at the water's edge of Florida. Second, the Commissioners and CU advocates like you have to respect and accept that BFOs, like our family who for many decades, by grace, willing shared their/our private property with others they did not invite or give license to use; but have the right to share or not. Without that respect and acceptance, there can be no option but for the courts to decide if public customary use of private property is superior than all Constitutionally protected private property bundle of rights and force BFOs to share. Only then can there be a possibility "we walk that back and restore our beaches to some semblance of shareable order?" I'm guessing that is not acceptable to the Commissioners' and your CU agenda so I'm guessing it's a moot point.

"I acknowledge private property but as long as people behave correctly on beach private property and follow whatever rules the county adopts" Acceptable regulated legal public behavior is expected and shall be enforced by the local Government regardless of CU or not and is not a condition for use of private property. I think you are genuine; but that is straw-man argument.

"4 million visitors can easily be educated"? 99.99998% of the beach going public know it is not acceptable and is trespassing to walk north-south across private property to access any beach - but I have seen it and had it happen to us maybe every other week during the summers. Public education is better than none but without prompt enforcement and consequences over time, education is not effective.

"the county in America that set the precedent that privatized beaches across the Nation?" You can not "privatize" beachfront property that is and has been private since the first government land grants and patents. "It is just that simple."
The sooner Commissioners and CU advocates like you stop the CU misinformation like quiet title and BF can't be built on (only because of Government police powers), is worthless, and not taxed (unless you have credible facts to present); the better too.

"The only thing I’ve been uncompromising about is the ability of beachfront owners to exclude people from the sandy parts of the beach. There’s plenty of compromise when it comes to setting up rules on those sandy parts." No there is not; without recognizing and respecting the legal bundle of littoral private property rights BFOs have had since 1776 and have today as recognized, even if not respected enough to enforce it, by the Sherriff's 2015 trespass SOP, there can be no other solution than the courts to rule if CU is Constitutional or if is CU is a "taking" of private property rights. Respectfully.

Happy Forth of July Independence Day
 
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