Death today at Seagrove Beach

[Smiling JOe]

Geo, you are right that the TDC would rather have a friendly crab than skull and cross bones which I have suggested numerous times. How about the second red flag reading, "Potential Death?" The TDC may not want to scare people off, but don't you think that numerous drownings and even more rescues, is pretty damn scary? I don't run the show, but if I did, I'd rather have a scary flag if it saved lives, than have scary news headlines about people drowning on our beaches. I've said for a long time that the second red flag with the swimmer logo with the bar, doesn't draw attention, no more than signs informing people to stay out of the dunes. It is time that the TDC rethinks that second flag, in a very serious nature. I think most people recognize the skull and cross bones as danger, and most won't confuse it with permission to rape and pillage, or Talk Like a Pirate Day.

 

[Lady D]

The place we rent has the warning flag system posted on their refrigerator. We had reg flags practically every day when we were there back in May with the no swimming on the flag, not once did we go in the water when the flags were red. I did however to the west of where we stayed see a few people out swimming in the water regardless of the flags. But to the east of us you saw no one in the water, hardly out on the beach.

 

[Miss Kitty]

Geo, you are right that the TDC would rather have a friendly crab than skull and cross bones which I have suggested numerous times. How about the second red flag reading, "Potential Death?" The TDC may not want to scare people off, but don't you think that numerous drownings and even more rescues, is pretty damn scary? I don't run the show, but if I did, I'd rather have a scary flag if it saved lives, than have scary news headlines about people drowning on our beaches. I've said for a long time that the second red flag with the swimmer logo with the bar, doesn't draw attention, no more than signs informing people to stay out of the dunes. It is time that the TDC rethinks that second flag, in a very serious nature. I think most people recognize the skull and cross bones as danger, and most won't confuse it with permission to rape and pillage, or Talk Like a Pirate Day.

Thinking along these lines...someone could decide that red swimmer flag means....swim and you might get sunburned. I swear I am being serious here.

 

[seacrestgirl]

This is very sad, I think I know where this happened, and the flags are a good 600-1000' away. There should be a flag pole at every public access! The private access should be required to be put up by the owners. 1 life might have been saved. Easy to blame the individual, we have no idea what he did or did not know. What we do know is he is dead. The problem is visibility of these flags. If you can not see them, what you do or do not know about them does not matter. Tragic as this is, we need to help make these flags more visible to help prevent another loss and a family grieving. Doubtfire

I also agree! Our house is in Seacrest Beach North. We access the beach thru the community across the street. It is considered private access. JUST LAST YEAR did I notice the flag flying way up the beach! I always wondered how one knew the beach conditions, as I have never noticed the flags. It is critical to make these flags noticeable to ALL!!!

 

[Smiling JOe]

Kitty, that wouldn't surprise me. Here's another possibility. People may see the flag with the cross over the swimmer and think the flag means, "no swimming," when in fact, it is supposed to mean, "Water is closed. Stay out!" One can stand out in the gulf, not swimming, and be swept away by the rip currents.

Someone told me to say what you mean and mean what you say. Don't tell people not to swim, if you really mean stay out of the water, and if you say that you are going to fine people for breaking the rules which may save their life, well do it. I still think that it is impossible to fix stupid.

 

[scooterbug44]

Thinking along these lines...someone could decide that red swimmer flag means....swim and you might get sunburned. I swear I am being serious here.

At that point Darwinism becomes necessary for the good of the planet!

SJ, the bazillion signs, leaflets, commercials, etc. all say that the double red flags means "water closed to public."

I am all for informing the public to unknown hazards, but we do need to draw the line. These people have to be minimally intelligent enough to have jobs or wealth to pay for their vacations, operate a motor vehicle or navigate an airport to get here, and must have a rudimentary knowledge of the english language to obtain food or shelter.

We have an internationally standard flag system, printed in 2 languages, with symbols and colors for those who can't read, and have an impressive media, internet, and signage campaign about it.

 

[GoodWitch58]

Kitty, that wouldn't surprise me. Here's another possibility. People may see the flag with the cross over the swimmer and think the flag means, "no swimming," when in fact, it is supposed to mean, "Water is closed. Stay out!" One can stand out in the gulf, not swimming, and be swept away by the rip currents.

Someone told me to say what you mean and mean what you say. Don't tell people not to swim, if you really mean stay out of the water, and if you say that you are going to fine people for breaking the rules which may save their life, well do it. I still think that it is impossible to fix stupid.

S J, I agree...some people will behave irresponsibly regardless of what anyone does.

Having said that, I think the families of these people who have died; the life guards; and the other law enforcement and EMS people who tried to save them would appreciate any additional effort that might have saved them.

I know you can see the pain on the faces of the LEOs who are trying their best to keep people safe--and having them die despite the best efforts of the life guards and law enforcement; not to speak of the "every day" person who often risks his or her life to help.

I would like to see us try a more serious approach to the printed warnings...

 

[NotDeadYet]

I like the ordinance PCB is working on, to require all walkovers including private ones to post the flag sign and the rip current sign. And I also think we do need more flags. It is not just older eyes that cannot see the flags clearly from quite a few locations, including the site of yesterday's drowning. Often when we have red flag conditions we also have a lot of wind and salt spray and haze on the beach.

 

[NoHall]

Like Scooterbug said: If you read the signs at the flags, they are clear. Red says, "Swim at your own risk." As a former lifeguard, I translate that to mean that if you're dumb enough to swim out to find the sand bar under a red flag, I'm under no obligation to risk my life to save you. Double red means to stay out of the water. It doesn't say, "No surfing, no deep-water swimming, no wading, no skim-boarding." It says, "Water closed."

My point? People do what they want to do. They interpret the signs to their own convenience and desires, and sometimes their own safety is not their top priority.

I just wish that the lifeguards would pack up and go have lunch on red flag days, just so they're not tempted to save the idiots. That's what "swim at your own risk" means.

 

[JB]

The closest red flags to where the gentleman drowned are so far away that they just look like decorative flags in front of a condo. At his age I'll bet he couldn't even see the flags, even if he knew what they meant.

Many tourists aren't familiar with the beach flag warning system because there are more private walkovers than public ones. According to a State of Florida website, "To the extent funds are available, warning flags and interpretive signs are provided free of charge to local governments that provide public beach access. The communities that receive the free warning flags and interpretive signs are responsible for the installation, proper use, and maintenance of the flags and signs." The State of Florida has made no provision for these signs to be made available for private walkovers.

BR, you bring up an excellent point. I handful of the larger properties adhere to the flag warning system, but there are stretches all along 30-A where one can walk long distances and not see any flags. I guess this begs the question - whose responsibility is it to warn folks if they are unaware of the danger?

I think we sometimes take it for granted that folks just automatically know when surf conditions are dangerous. Some dude from say, Kansas, just sees big waves and wants to get out there. Next thing you know, someone is dragging him out of the surf.

I certainly don't have the answer, but it's an issue nonetheless.