Eastern Lake Outfall Parcel Purchase

[Danny Glidewell]

Lucas Reynolds, I do not get daily trash pickup at my property, county employees cleaning my property, volunteers protecting wildlife on my property, intensive law enforcement on my property, government employees stationed on or near my property to save visitors from endangering themselves or government cleanup and restoration in the event of a natural disaster. I also do not get millions of government funds spent on advertising to help me make money on my property. You are getting all of these benefits, so how is it that the taxpayers provide all these trappings and then cannot even throw a towel down and sit for a few minutes?

 

[FactorFiction]

Lucas Reynolds, I do not get daily trash pickup at my property, county employees cleaning my property, volunteers protecting wildlife on my property, intensive law enforcement on my property, government employees stationed on or near my property to save visitors from endangering themselves or government cleanup and restoration in the event of a natural disaster. I also do not get millions of government funds spent on advertising to help me make money on my property. You are getting all of these benefits, so how is it that the taxpayers provide all these trappings and then cannot even throw a towel down and sit for a few minutes?

Danny, are you referring to resort, condo, and vacation rental properties? Perhaps some of the problem is that all beachfront properties are not the same and do not need, want, or use the services you are indicating. Most of the individual homeowners (single family residential) that I know, are very good stewards of their properties and are willing to accept the downside of not depending on taxpayer dollars. Quite a few of them don't seem to mind people throwing down a towel and sitting on the beach. There is a vast difference between walking, jogging, swimming, fishing, throwing a towel down to rest or sunbathe, and/or building sandcastles VS setting up tents, volleyball nets (or other games), chairs and umbrellas spread out to claim space, loud music, drinking, using dunes for makeshift bathrooms and other things that may interfere with an owner's enjoyment of their property. Even worse is when people damage the dunes , dig holes, leave trash, etc and the property owner is the one who takes the time to remedy the situation the best they can. While it seems that you, personally, believe that customary use should be for the quiet enjoyment of the beach without all the modern accoutrements, many people want far more than that, including the "right" to use tents, chairs and umbrellas, etc as "place holders" on the beach. Enforcement is enough of an issue now that it is difficult to imagine that it will improve with an actual finding of customary use. BTW, I really like that term modern accoutrements! Hope you don't mind me borrowing it

 

[gailforce]

My experience living beach front:
1. Private beachfront does get daily pickups, as the tourists also use these garbage bags a lot
2. In the 81/2 years living on the beach, During this time, I have probably seen 5 or 6 times, county employees cleaning up public beach. Although, they do drive it most every night, except maybe big parts of January and February.
3. The volunteers that protect wildlife are thorough and diligent and I am sure that they will come to your property and handle wildlife protection equally.
4. Intensive law enforcement. When the Sheriff's SOP came out about beach front owners and trespassing, we complied to every request, documents being sealed when presented to officer, social security numbers, collected, blood and hair samples (just kidding). But then there was one thing the SOP required that is impossible. And that was to mark our property boundaries out into the water
5. Government employees on or around private beach to save tourists from endangering themselves? that is non existent, so I don't know what to say but, "nuh unh."
6. Government clean up and restoration in the event of a natural disaster. About beach restoration, many beach property owners wanted to pay for their titled property to be restored as planned. But once it is restored by government funds, it becomes public. So, if delegated money had been spent to restore the public beaches and private beach owners paid for private beach restoration, then we'd be squabbling over a better beach, but with ugly sand. It wasn't about the best for the beaches, it was a failed attempt at a land grab.
7. You don't get millions spent on advertising to make more money on property. First of all, why so much to sell paradise. Plus, no one makes money from overcrowding but tow trucks and tent makers. People want to come here and feel special, not one of the herd.
8. Sitting on a towel for a few minutes. That would be most welcome. If that's all there was, but, thinking it through, it shows other people that they can come over and they may not want to sit on a towel for a few minutes. More than likely they set up their unmrellas that may very well fly down the beach. Then behind that is the tent and all it's ropes and holes. Later that night, this will be the same tent that code enforcement will be called about and drive by, and even spotlight for the next three nights.
Trappings? Tourists craping up the beaches and roads. Pay private property tax on top property tax, pick up,trash, fill holes, have the sheriff sabatoge your rights, and defend what you are titled to. That's what we do daily.

 

[John G]

It won't without strict enforcement and a really thorough education of the public.

Once again, there's that word that doesn't exist in South Walton, especially on our beaches - Enforcement.

This past weekend I once again saw dogs off leash, beer Bottles and was even given a full first hand account of fornicating in the shallow water by a young couple that came from a public access.

Never once did I see one of the ten new code enforcement people. Never once a WCSO vehicle. All this on what's now "fall break" and when hundred's of hurricane evacs came her fleeing their original vacation destination.

I think the points about the Sheriff's Office SOP are spot on and beach front owners should be outraged as to how that was misrepresented and misleading. The WCSO should pay for / reimburse, anyone that jumped through their circus hoops expenses if they will not Enforce their own policy.

It's really sad we have to continue this debate and now spend money on a legal battle against an attorney that's playing both sides of the fence when it comes to private property (FWC ruling in Tallahassee).

I also think that the open areas at all the State Parks are drastically underused and provide a great solution to those that believe they can get to the beach.

Or, they can get a mega yacht, park offshore and jet ski or small boat in to shore, in a landing type fashion...

 

[Danny Glidewell]

Gailforce, thanks for your input. I understand your frustration. I hope you understand that while the execution of several things I mentioned may currently be lacking, the intent of many Walton County citizens is to help take care of the beaches which are our crown jewel and the motor for our economy. I do not like all the turmoil and would prefer that we work to find common ground. But in fact there has been millions spent on the beaches and the beaches get services that no other Walton County property owner gets. In the past after storms the BCC has spent millions on emergency rebuilds and refurbishments. I vividly remember the amount of county equipment on the beaches repairing damage to the beach. I understand not wanting a tent full of drunks behind your house running a generator and a boom box. But you must understand that people have been sunbathing, swimming and fishing on that same beach for decades and that inhibiting that will cost people their livelihood.

 

[James Bentwood]

Maybe we should ban umbrellas, tents, and so forth. The events, bonfires, cookouts, amplified systems, etc are getting out of hand.

Probably not practical now that the box is open beachfront owners will just need to deal with it.

 

[James Bentwood]

Public Workshop: Ordinance which would define and regulate the public’s customary use of the beaches

You are hereby notified that the Walton County Board of County Commissioners will hold a Public Workshop on Wednesday, October 19, 2016 from 4:00 PM to 7:00 PM. The meeting will be held at the South Walton Courthouse Annex located at 31 Coastal Centre Blvd., Santa Rosa Beach, FL.

The purpose of this meeting is to discuss an ordinance which would define and regulate the public’s customary use of the beaches in Walton County.


____________________


Notices of Public Hearings: Waterways and Beach Activities and Customary Use of the Dry Sand
NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING ONE

The Walton County Board of County Commissioners proposes to adopt the following by ordinance:

AN ORDINANCE AMENDING WALTON CODE OF ORDINANCES CHAPTER 22, THE “WALTON COUNTY WATERWAYS AND BEACH ACTIVITIES ORDINANCE”; DELETING SECTION 22-52, WHICH MAKES NO FINDING OF FACT THAT THE PUBLIC EITHER HAS OR HAS NOT CUSTOMARILY USED THE BEACH; PROVIDING FOR PURPOSE, LEGISLATIVE FINDINGS, SEVERABILITY, INCLUSION IN THE CODE, AND AN EFFECTIVE DATE.

You are hereby notified that a Public Hearing on the ordinance will be held on October 25, 2016, beginning at 9:00 a.m., or as soon as possible to that time, at the Walton County Courthouse located at 571 U.S. Highway 90 East, DeFuniak Springs, Florida.

 

[Lucas Reynolds]

Lucas Reynolds, I do not get [1] daily trash pickup at my property, county employees cleaning my property, volunteers protecting wildlife on my property, [2] intensive law enforcement on my property, [3] government employees stationed on or near my property to save visitors from endangering themselves or [4] government cleanup and restoration in the event of a natural disaster. I also do not get [5] millions of government funds spent on advertising to help me make money on my property. You are getting all of these benefits, so how is it that the taxpayers provide all these trappings and then cannot even throw a towel down and sit for a few minutes?

Sorry I wish I could make simple short answers to your points but this is not a simple topic as you try to make it.

Danny, again you did not answer the previous questions about customary-use but pivot to an unrelated questions. First how are any of your points criteria to claim customary-use on private property? There is no customary-use "benefits" criteria as you describe or please provide the basis and facts how they apply for a customary use claim on private property. Second point. (1) most property owners have NOT asked the TDC to pick up trash on their property, the TDC took that upon themselves, and in FACT many owners have told the TDC to not place trash receptacles on their property and not to drive on their property, spoiling their pristine beach property they maintain. Same with (2) law enforcement, owners have not asked for law enforcement to drive up and down their private property multiple times a day, Sheriff Adkinson made that decision, some owners do not want the Sheriff driving day and night over their private property and have asked him to stop doing it. The Deputies are great at doing their jobs; but their time would be better spent enforcing laws on 30A and Scenic Hwy 98, and could respond faster to calls on the beach if they were on 30A and Scenic 98. (3) Fire department life guards are on public property, not private property, and they respond to emergencies wherever they occur just like they would at your house.

(4) Tax payer beach fortification; that most owners never asked for and recently rejected (even Dave Rauschkolb was against beach fortification). Walton county could not just dump 3.8M cubic yards of substandard (color and content) sand from off-shore on private property because it would be in economic interest of non-property owners - because the US Corps of Engineers recognized ALL littoral private property rights and needed property easements to accomplish and failed. Because owners have that right to exclude others from their private property without their permission. The beaches have been here for thousands(?) of years and will likely be here long after for many generations more; unless you have some facts otherwise.

(5) Millions of government (TDC) funds spent on advertising!? Property owners did not ask the TDC to tax tourist 5% bed tax to spend millions on unneeded advertising. Business owners like Dave Rauschkolb’s restaurants benefit more from the bed tax on owner’s properties to advertise to bring more tourist. Tourist demand is there and tourist will come regardless if the TDC advertises or not. I hear all the time we do not want to be like Destin. Has tourism declined in Okaloosa/Destin and Panama City over the years? Seems like demand is increasing without the TDC's "help". If the TDC is such a good deal let the businesses that benefit, like Dave R’s, who feel that the TDC and advertising is a good return on investment pay for it, not tourist. I say save the tourist $20M every year and stop the TDC from taxing them. Let the tourist spend their additional $20M on the local economy and create more jobs than the TDC ever could.

Read this question carefully; how many MORE tourist have come to Walton because of TDC advertising than would have come without advertising? Not how many total tourist come to Walton; because most are going to come anyway. I’d guess not many to warrant a tax of $20M a year. Poor RoI.

You forgot about (6) code enforcement driving daily over private property declaring personal-property on private-property “abandoned” (legal abandonment is not overnight), entering private property and taking other people’s personal property without an owner’s permission. Do that in your front yard and where I come from and that’s theft. Ticket them if they are in violation of the code. Many tourist leave stuff on the beach BECAUSE Walton will pick it up a dispose of it for them instead of disposing of it themselves. I bet private property owners police their own private property better than Walton ever could or will.

(7) You also forgot about flood insurance. Do you think you should have rights to private property because owners have flood insurance, would that mean you should have an interest in private property of the flood victims in Houston, TX, Baton Rouge, LA, St Louis, MO, and Columbia, SC inland too? Because there is only one government flood insurance carrier that I know of. And would you be OK with property owners maintaining their ALL their property rights if they are self-insured?

Enough of that; the discussion is what are the historical limits and criteria of custom and how would it apply to Walton private property? Can you explain historical limits of customary use? Without these high limits on common-law custom claims anyone could claim customary use for anything; like being able to deer hunt with dogs on private property because hunters have a tradition and custom of decades of doing it on private property.

 

[Lucas Reynolds]

Does this answer your question Lucas Reynolds

CUSTOM

If the public has a right to drive and park on appellant's privately owned platted lots, it most likely will be through application of the law of "custom." Florida's Supreme Court first recognized the public's "customary" right to the use of Florida's privately owned dry sand beaches in the Tona-Rama decision. 294 So. 2d at 74. There the court said: The beaches of Florida are of such a character as to use and potential development as to require separate consideration from other lands with respect to the elements and consequences of title. The sandy portion of the beaches . . . [have] served as a thoroughfare and haven for fishermen and bathers, as well as a place of recreation for the public. The interest and rights of the public to the full use of the beaches should be protected. 294 So. 2d at 77. The court recognized that the public may acquire a right to use the sandy area adjacent to the mean high tide line by custom when “the recreational use of the sandy area . . . has been ancient, reasonable, without interruption and free from dispute . . . .” Id. at 78. The recognition of a right through "custom" means that the owner cannot use his property in a way that is inconsistent with the public’s customary use or “calculated to interfere with the exercise of the right of the public to enjoy the dry sand area as a recreational adjunct of the wet sand or foreshore area.” Id. Trepanier et al v. County of Volusia 965 So. 2d 276; 2007 Fla. App

You are mixing cases. Which party prevailed in the Thepanier case? Might want to read the both cases, rulings, and legal conclusions again. Danny or Dave R you seem to be knowledgeable opponents of private property rights would you care you to address the Trepanier and Tona-Rama case facts and how these facts might apply to Walton private properties? I'm guessing not but it would be educational if you did.

 

[Lucas Reynolds]

Gailforce, thanks for your input. I understand your frustration. I hope you understand that while the execution of several things I mentioned may currently be lacking, the intent of many Walton County citizens is to help take care of the beaches which are our crown jewel and the motor for our economy. I do not like all the turmoil and would prefer that we work to find common ground. But in fact there has been millions spent on the beaches and the beaches get services that no other Walton County property owner gets. In the past after storms the BCC has spent millions on emergency rebuilds and refurbishments. I vividly remember the amount of county equipment on the beaches repairing damage to the beach. I understand not wanting a tent full of drunks behind your house running a generator and a boom box. But you must understand that people have been sunbathing, swimming and fishing on that same beach for decades and that inhibiting that will cost people their livelihood.

Danny how does beach services most owners did not ask for on their property and for some owners feel impose on apply to the to the common-law of custom? Want to take a referendum of individual property owners to see if they would (1) want Walton beach services and give up their right of who can use their property without permission that they pay for the right to use themselves or (2) give up beach services and have their property rights respected by Walton county commissioners?

Why don't you and Walton take care of the 32,369 feet of Walton public beachfront, 38.2 acres of dry sandy beach at Walton’s Regional accesses, and the 3 state parks 5,838 acres for public use with beachfront, restrooms, parking, and camping property and individual private property owners will take care of their private property. No more turmoil.