Get the lead out of yer herbs

[30A Skunkape]

Sloan Kettering Cancer Center didn't scientifically find that that the herb Turmeric could cause a placebo effect at all, but I am guessing you do not believe them either. From their web site shown below! I also hope you weren't mocking chronic Lyme disease when many FB people changed their avatars to Lyme green for May- Lyme awareness month and you and nurses took a photo with a green tint, because I am certain you believe it doesn't exist. I may be an idiot in your book, but I know mocking intonations when I see them.

Clinical Summary

I'm not calling anyone an idiot, and I certainly understand that medicines can be derived from all manner of plants;that is beyond debate.

The problem is, and this has been my point for years, having been round and round with SOWAL supplement/herb/vitamin advocates, is that herbs, vitamins, tonics, teas and all other manner of 'natural' remedies are NOT by default safe products because they are sold without a prescription! It seems that 'big herb' has fostered an image of product wholesomeness (akin to the consumer's perception of farming practices based on food label art depicting small, rural farms when in reality most of the farm products we consume are from megafactory farms, the point made in the film Food Inc.) that is inconsistent with reality. Like so many of our goods today, these products are made in China for goodness sake! I was amazed to learn that almost 100% of vitamin C supplements are manufactured in China...China, the same country that routinely puts toxic amounts of lead and cadmium in kids toys! If I routinely consumed vitamins and supplements and discovered that nearly every sample tested in a congressional inquiry was tainted with lead, I would feel really sick and pissed off right now.

I know you like to use these products but I have to tell you, I will no longer take any of this stuff and will advocate anyone to cease and desist consumption of vitamins and supplements unless there is documentation of domestic manufacture and wholesomeness. It simply makes no sense to consume these products at this point as there is almost never demonstrable benefit and now the very real risk of harm. Additionally, I advocate a strong tightening of laws overseeing this out of control industry to protect people who will continue to use these products. I would suggest that if you want to consume turmeric you patronize your local Indian restaurant, not the supplement store.

 

[Gidget]

I'd tell them pain is subjective, the placebo effect is real and caveat emptor, as always. The herbal/vitamin thing is a bunch of crap, sorry. Furthermore, it is apparently dangerous. Believe who you wish, big pharma, big herb or big brother.

So you don't think that any vitamins are worthwhile? What about folic acid for pregnant women? What about the way Native Americans treated illness and infection with echinacea? What about supplementing Vit D for people in less sunny climates? People have been using herbs for eons for healing. Granted, there are some "snake oil" salesmen out there, but the consumer needs to become educated about what they are taking and do their research. I never put anything in my body without thorough research and that would include anything on a prescription pad too (can't tell you how many people just faithfully "pop" whatever their doctor gives them without question or research)

OTC medications - and I believe they are regulated - can be very dangerous. And people pop Tylenol left and right -

According to the FDA, taking too much acetaminophen will kill you and the government agency also admits this chemical is the leading cause of liver failure in the U.S. Acetaminophen is responsible for 56,000 emergency room visits and 456 deaths annually, according to studies done between 1990 and 1998. In spite of this, billions of doses are sold each year.

The FDA rarely admits the damage the drugs they`ve approved do. In fact, in recent years, the drug approval agency has been in the spotlight for doing precisely the opposite; they`ve been caught hiding this information from public view. FDA Admits Drug in Tylenol and Excedrin is Main Cause of Liver Failure in U.S.
​

We must become educated consumers no matter what we are taking I'll give you that. But to say that herbs and vitamins are crap is just wrong.

G

 

[Gidget]

I was amazed to learn that almost 100% of vitamin C supplements are manufactured in China...China, the same country that routinely puts toxic amounts of lead and cadmium in kids toys!

My bottle of Vit C says United States. I think people should read the article you posted and learn from it. Become safe consumers. But not dismiss the fact that certain herbs and supplements, along with a good diet and exercise, have their place.

 

[30A Skunkape]

So you don't think that any vitamins are worthwhile? What about folic acid for pregnant women? What about the way Native Americans treated illness and infection with echinacea? What about supplementing Vit D for people in less sunny climates? People have been using herbs for eons for healing. Granted, there are some "snake oil" salesmen out there, but the consumer needs to become educated about what they are taking and do their research. I never put anything in my body without thorough research and that would include anything on a prescription pad too (can't tell you how many people just faithfully "pop" whatever their doctor gives them without question or research)

OTC medications - and I believe they are regulated - can be very dangerous. And people pop Tylenol left and right -

According to the FDA, taking too much acetaminophen will kill you and the government agency also admits this chemical is the leading cause of liver failure in the U.S. Acetaminophen is responsible for 56,000 emergency room visits and 456 deaths annually, according to studies done between 1990 and 1998. In spite of this, billions of doses are sold each year.

The FDA rarely admits the damage the drugs they`ve approved do. In fact, in recent years, the drug approval agency has been in the spotlight for doing precisely the opposite; they`ve been caught hiding this information from public view. FDA Admits Drug in Tylenol and Excedrin is Main Cause of Liver Failure in U.S.
​

We must become educated consumers no matter what we are taking I'll give you that. But to say that herbs and vitamins are crap is just wrong.

G

In fact, you are right. I do tell postmenopausal women to take a calcium + Vitamin D supplement. I will have to try to figure out which are domestically produced. As far as folic acid, sorry, but until a prenatal vitamin or folate tab is known to be produced in a safe plant, it is not worth it. Luckily folic acid is added to a wide variety of foods and is available naturally in others, so there probably will not be an epidemic of neural tube defects.

I might be wrong, but I bet that the label on your Vitamin C simply displaying a company name headquartered in the USA does not specifically mean it was produced in the USA.

As far as echinacea, in studies not designed by manufacturers it doesn't seem to do much other than separate consumers from their money. There was a great study probably 8-10 years ago where college kids (volunteers!) were infected with Rhinovirus, and one group was given echinacea, the other a placebo and there was absolutely no benefit in the treated group versus the placebo group. Paying $8-10 on something that is probably manufactured in China in order to 'cure' a self limited condition makes no sense.

I have only seen one case of tylenol induced hepatitis, and that was in an alcoholic who was taking tylenol, some cold remedy that contained tylenol and drinking like a fish. It resolved in a few days. I have seen many cases of people who have tried to kill themselves with tylenol by intentionally overdosing, and in each instance they were unsuccessful. All in all, acetaminophen seems to me to be a safe product when used as intended. Even though Tylenol's safety is a red herring in this thread, I do find it interesting that the manufacturer pulled their product recently after concern over product wholesomeness. I wonder if any manufacturer or seller of of vitamins and herbs will do the same since it appears their products may be tainted. I will not hold my breath...

 

[Gidget]

In fact, you are right. I do tell postmenopausal women to take a calcium + Vitamin D supplement. I will have to try to figure out which are domestically produced. As far as folic acid, sorry, but until a prenatal vitamin or folate tab is known to be produced in a safe plant, it is not worth it. Luckily folic acid is added to a wide variety of foods and is available naturally in others, so there probably will not be an epidemic of neural tube defects. (I never took any - I relied on lots of leafy green veggies and that is what I would recommend, but a lot of health care professionals don't even bring that up or they do push the prenatals with FA)

I might be wrong, but I bet that the label on your Vitamin C simply displaying a company name headquartered in the USA does not specifically mean it was produced in the USA. (you know, I am going to contact them and find out. It says "manufactured by NOW Foods, Bloomingdale, IL 60108 and then it says "made in USA" - I'll let you know what they say )

As far as echinacea, in studies not designed by manufacturers it doesn't seem to do much other than separate consumers from their money. There was a great study probably 8-10 years ago where college kids (volunteers!) were infected with Rhinovirus, and one group was given echinacea, the other a placebo and there was absolutely no benefit in the treated group versus the placebo group. Paying $8-10 on something that is probably manufactured in China in order to 'cure' a self limited condition makes no sense. (tell that to the Native Americans who used it for snake-bite and I grow my own root) ;-)

If I have a tummy ache I totally rely on mint from my garden and chamomile. Herbal remedy over Tums any day.

I wouldn't say though that someone taking turmeric or curamin is only receiving a placebo effect. That's not fair to the person suffering. I've read countless tales of people finding their only hope in curamin (which does have its side effects too of course) and they thank their lucky stars they have it.

 

[LuciferSam]

What about cranberry juice for prevention of bladder and urinary tract infections? That's really all I care about. I switched over to Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic for the supposed benefits, and that stuff is awful! I would rather drink that citrusy Blue Moon weasel piss whatever you call it.

 

[LuciferSam]

If I have a tummy ache I totally rely on mint from my garden and chamomile. Herbal remedy over Tums any day.

I wouldn't say though that someone taking turmeric or curamin is only receiving a placebo effect. That's not fair to the person suffering. I've read countless tales of people finding their only hope in curamin (which does have its side effects too of course) and they thank their lucky stars they have it.

Why is it unfair to tell a patient the effect is only due to placebo? You're essentially telling the patient he's getting better, no longer needs treatment, and will now have a little more time and money on his hands. Sounds like progress to me.

 

[30A Skunkape]

If I have a tummy ache I totally rely on mint from my garden and chamomile. Herbal remedy over Tums any day.

I wouldn't say though that someone taking turmeric or curamin is only receiving a placebo effect. That's not fair to the person suffering. I've read countless tales of people finding their only hope in curamin (which does have its side effects too of course) and they thank their lucky stars they have it.

Gidget, there is a huge difference between you picking something out of your garden and enjoying it (we have mint, too) and something grown lord knows where, processed according to unknown standards and possibly tainted. Apples and oranges.

FYI, I tried to call Bayer today (maker of the ubiquitous Flintstones vitamins) to see where the pills are actually made. The company has a New Jersey address. Unfortunately, the customer service line is closed on the weekend and the website did not mention it. I will report back with an update.

 

[Gidget]

Gidget, there is a huge difference between you picking something out of your garden and enjoying it (we have mint, too) and something grown lord knows where, processed according to unknown standards and possibly tainted. Apples and oranges.

FYI, I tried to call Bayer today (maker of the ubiquitous Flintstones vitamins) to see where the pills are actually made. The company has a New Jersey address. Unfortunately, the customer service line is closed on the weekend and the website did not mention it. I will report back with an update.

Yeah, but you said "the herb/vitamin thing is a bunch of crap" - so are you saying herbs are crap or that herbs that are manufactured in loose ways are crap. That's why I wrote that.

 

[Gidget]

When science clashes with beliefs? Make science impotent

This has NOTHING to do with this thread - so you are telling me that I, who understand and believe in evolution and I, who understand and believe in man's hand in global warming am not scientific because I believe that when if I take an herbal supplement or a vitamin I am building health?

There's a balance here when it comes to herbs and vitamins. Yes, making sure our sources are clean sources is important. And making sure we don't buy into all the hoopla about herbs AND prescribed drugs is important. We must do our research. But to dismiss ALL claims when it comes to herbs and vitamins is wrong.