News flash,it ain't all about you!
Get the lead out of yer herbs
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News flash,it ain't all about you!
Yep, but let's pick on the supplement folk cause their are stupid and blindly believe everything on every label out there! SUCKERS!
I think I've said all I have to say on this - except thanks A for the compliments - I try girl!!
G
THIS is what I was responding to, not you on an individual basis.
Gidget posted:
"Yeah, but you said "the herb/vitamin thing is a bunch of crap" - so are you saying herbs are crap or that herbs that are manufactured in loose ways are crap. That's why I wrote that."
Regulation is one thing, banning the industry is another. Many "approved" drugs are pulled over individual incidents when the numbers become overwhelming, not before they come out.
I'd like to see the numbers on herbal related deaths or health food related deaths. Even with the FDA involved, it does not stop people from dying from medications.
"Prescription drug reactions kill more than 100,000 a year
By BRENDA C. COLEMAN
April 15, 1998
Associated Press
CHICAGO ? Bad reactions to prescription and over-the-counter medicines kill more than 100,000 Americans and seriously injure an additional 2.1 million every year ? far more than most people realize, researchers say.
Such reactions, which do not include prescribing errors or drug abuse, rank at least sixth among U.S. causes of death ? behind heart disease, cancer, lung disease, strokes and accidents, says a report based on an analysis of existing studies.
"We're not saying, 'Don't take drugs.' They have wonderful benefits," said Dr. Bruce H. Pomeranz, principal investigator and a neuroscience professor at the University of Toronto.
"But what we're arguing is that there should be increased awareness also of side effects, which until now have not been too well understood."
The harm may range from an allergic reaction to an antibiotic to stomach bleeding from frequent doses of aspirin, Pomeranz said. The study, by Pomeranz and two colleagues at his school, Jason Lazarou and Paul N. Corey, did not explore which medications or illnesses were involved.
The authors analyzed 39 studies of hospital patients from 1966 to 1996. Serious drug reactions affected 6.7 percent of patients overall and fatal drug reactions 0.32 percent, the authors reported in Wednesday's Journal of the American Medical Association.
In the study, serious injury was defined as being hospitalized, having to extend a hospital stay or suffering permanent disability.
The most surprising result was the large number of deaths, the authors said. They found adverse drug reactions ranked between fourth and sixth among leading causes of death, depending on whether they used their most conservative or a more liberal estimate.
In 1994, between 76,000 and 137,000 U.S. hospital patients died, and the "ballpark estimate" is 106,000, Pomeranz said. The low estimate, 76,000 deaths, would put drug reactions sixth. The ballpark estimate would put them fourth, he said.
An additional 1.6 million to 2.6 million patients were seriously injured, with the ballpark estimate 2.1 million, he said.
More than two-thirds of the cases involved reactions outside hospitals rather than in hospitals, the authors reported.
Experts commended the study but disagreed whether the estimates are on target.
Dr. David W. Bates of Partners Healthcare Systems and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston said the estimates may be high. One reason, he said, is that they may overrepresent large medical centers, which treat sicker than average patients, who are more prone to reactions.
"Nonetheless, these data are important, and even if the true incidence of adverse drug reactions is somewhat lower than that reported ... it is still high, and much higher than generally recognized," he said.
Dr. Sidney M. Wolfe, director of the consumer advocacy Public Citizen Health Research Group, said he believes the numbers are on target.
"I've read most of these studies, and they represent large hospitals, small hospitals ... a heterogeneous sample of the kinds of hospitals in this country, and include a whole range," Wolfe said by telephone Tuesday from Washington."
I trust little or nothing from outside this country after the pet food deaths a few years back. I was lucky. I was broke and could not buy my two their regular brand. It saved their lives as some of the cheaper brand werre not contaminated.
__________________
Yes I knew you weren't responding to me. I wasn't the one who made the crap statement. I believe Skunky said something about the industry as a whole. That's not a personal indictment of somebody's beliefs, but now that we are on that subject I'd like to ask something. Whoever came up with the crazy notion that everybody's beliefs deserve to be respected? I can't think of a more dangerous notion.
What about cranberry juice for prevention of bladder and urinary tract infections? That's really all I care about. I switched over to Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic for the supposed benefits, and that stuff is awful!I would rather drink that citrusy Blue Moon weasel piss whatever you call it.
Your such a pissant!
j/k
THIS is what I was responding to, not you on an individual basis.
Gidget posted:
"Yeah, but you said "the herb/vitamin thing is a bunch of crap" - so are you saying herbs are crap or that herbs that are manufactured in loose ways are crap. That's why I wrote that."
Regulation is one thing, banning the industry is another. Many "approved" drugs are pulled over individual incidents when the numbers become overwhelming, not before they come out.
I'd like to see the numbers on herbal related deaths or health food related deaths. Even with the FDA involved, it does not stop people from dying from medications.
"Prescription drug reactions kill more than 100,000 a year
By BRENDA C. COLEMAN
April 15, 1998
Associated Press
CHICAGO ? Bad reactions to prescription and over-the-counter medicines kill more than 100,000 Americans and seriously injure an additional 2.1 million every year ? far more than most people realize, researchers say.
Such reactions, which do not include prescribing errors or drug abuse, rank at least sixth among U.S. causes of death ? behind heart disease, cancer, lung disease, strokes and accidents, says a report based on an analysis of existing studies.
"We're not saying, 'Don't take drugs.' They have wonderful benefits," said Dr. Bruce H. Pomeranz, principal investigator and a neuroscience professor at the University of Toronto.
"But what we're arguing is that there should be increased awareness also of side effects, which until now have not been too well understood."
The harm may range from an allergic reaction to an antibiotic to stomach bleeding from frequent doses of aspirin, Pomeranz said. The study, by Pomeranz and two colleagues at his school, Jason Lazarou and Paul N. Corey, did not explore which medications or illnesses were involved.
The authors analyzed 39 studies of hospital patients from 1966 to 1996. Serious drug reactions affected 6.7 percent of patients overall and fatal drug reactions 0.32 percent, the authors reported in Wednesday's Journal of the American Medical Association.
In the study, serious injury was defined as being hospitalized, having to extend a hospital stay or suffering permanent disability.
The most surprising result was the large number of deaths, the authors said. They found adverse drug reactions ranked between fourth and sixth among leading causes of death, depending on whether they used their most conservative or a more liberal estimate.
In 1994, between 76,000 and 137,000 U.S. hospital patients died, and the "ballpark estimate" is 106,000, Pomeranz said. The low estimate, 76,000 deaths, would put drug reactions sixth. The ballpark estimate would put them fourth, he said.
An additional 1.6 million to 2.6 million patients were seriously injured, with the ballpark estimate 2.1 million, he said.
More than two-thirds of the cases involved reactions outside hospitals rather than in hospitals, the authors reported.
Experts commended the study but disagreed whether the estimates are on target.
Dr. David W. Bates of Partners Healthcare Systems and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston said the estimates may be high. One reason, he said, is that they may overrepresent large medical centers, which treat sicker than average patients, who are more prone to reactions.
"Nonetheless, these data are important, and even if the true incidence of adverse drug reactions is somewhat lower than that reported ... it is still high, and much higher than generally recognized," he said.
Dr. Sidney M. Wolfe, director of the consumer advocacy Public Citizen Health Research Group, said he believes the numbers are on target.
"I've read most of these studies, and they represent large hospitals, small hospitals ... a heterogeneous sample of the kinds of hospitals in this country, and include a whole range," Wolfe said by telephone Tuesday from Washington."
I trust little or nothing from outside this country after the pet food deaths a few years back. I was lucky. I was broke and could not buy my two their regular brand. It saved their lives as some of the cheaper brand werre not contaminated.
__________________
That's not surprising. Drugs that are effective tend to have risks and can kill you.
I'll put my money on something that's been tested, proven effective, has documented risks, and is under constant scrutiny over untested folk remedies with a cult following any day.
Wow, did this thread blossom. Gidget, I applaud your efforts to educate yourself. It looks like the manufacturer or your supplements does a good job, but I suspect you end up paying for it at the cash register. I would guess without researching it that Wal-Mart or Walgreens sells more vitamins and supplements than anyone else in the US, and I know their wares are generally less expensive than what you see at a health food store, so the way I see it, that bottom line has to be the result of a cut in quality somewhere up the production chain. Could it be that the largest vendors of supplements in the US are selling the worst products?
Also to clarify, I didn't say anyone's beliefs were crap, I say the current state of the supplement industry is crap. It is hugely profitable, woefully regulated, frequently peddles products of dubious value and has successfully convinced millions of Americans that it offers products inherently safe because they are 'natural'. Sorry, it is a crappy industry-there are some good people associated with it and well meaning advocates, but all in all it profits on the fears of people. I'll change my think when the industry proves me wrong.
By the way (Gidget), I might have missed it, but I didn't see where NOW foods actually does their manufacturing. At first glance Illinois, but it never actually comes out and states this. Maybe I need to be fitted for a tin foil hat, but it looks like Illinois is thrown out there as a diversion.
Also to clarify, I didn't say anyone's beliefs were crap, I say the current state of the supplement industry is crap. It is hugely profitable, woefully regulated, frequently peddles products of dubious value and has successfully convinced millions of Americans that it offers products inherently safe because they are 'natural'. Sorry, it is a crappy industry-there are some good people associated with it and well meaning advocates, but all in all it profits on the fears of people. I'll change my think when the industry proves me wrong.
By the way (Gidget), I might have missed it, but I didn't see where NOW foods actually does their manufacturing. At first glance Illinois, but it never actually comes out and states this. Maybe I need to be fitted for a tin foil hat, but it looks like Illinois is thrown out there as a diversion.
So what's your take on these articles? Appears we are not just talking Vit C - Or am I reading these wrong? I am trying to educate myself. Thanks.
Statistics show that the total annual production volume of antibiotics made in China now stands at 147,000 tons, with 24,7000 tons destined for export. Seventy-five percent of the world?s penicillin industrial salt, 80 percent of the world?s cephalosporin antibiotics and 90 percent of the world?s streptomycin antibiotics are produced in China
I'm calling NOW Foods tomorrow and asking.
Yes I knew you weren't responding to me. I wasn't the one who made the crap statement. I believe Skunky said something about the industry as a whole. That's not a personal indictment of somebody's beliefs, but now that we are on that subject I'd like to ask something. Whoever came up with the crazy notion that everybody's beliefs deserve to be respected? I can't think of a more dangerous notion.
Personally, it goes back to the golden rule for me. Anyone can believe in what God, medicine or whatever they like as far as I'm concerned. I don't want to be forced to think or live like anyone else, but who the hell am I to say someone else is wrong? I've been wrong on many things, that from the outside looked pretty open and shut. I want others to stay out of my choices and I, respectfully, will stay out of theirs. That's just my opinion and it holds no more weight than any other, but holds no less either.
Live and let live.
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Unless someone is a total wack-a-doo and is hurting someone, I think their opinion/perspective has merit. They may not be right, but it can be a good part of the discussion.
There are many herbs and vitamins that have been proven to work for various ailments and have been the basis for many medicines and treatments and are being actively researched - I don't think Skunky is disputing that - the issue is that "natural" does not necessarily mean "safe or good for you" but many choose to think it does at the expense of their health and against medical advice and overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Overdosing on supplements can be just as dangerous as overdosing on something from a pharmaceutical company - and apparently taking a pill of any kind is becoming increasingly dangerous due to the lack of oversight of the manufacturing processes.
Though it still falls far behind a "natural product" that is manufactured to include many dangerous chemicals .................. so that it will kill 1/3 people who use it. TOBACCO!
There are many herbs and vitamins that have been proven to work for various ailments and have been the basis for many medicines and treatments and are being actively researched - I don't think Skunky is disputing that - the issue is that "natural" does not necessarily mean "safe or good for you" but many choose to think it does at the expense of their health and against medical advice and overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Overdosing on supplements can be just as dangerous as overdosing on something from a pharmaceutical company - and apparently taking a pill of any kind is becoming increasingly dangerous due to the lack of oversight of the manufacturing processes.
Though it still falls far behind a "natural product" that is manufactured to include many dangerous chemicals .................. so that it will kill 1/3 people who use it. TOBACCO!