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spinDrAtl

Beach Fanatic
Jul 11, 2005
367
2
Re: Seagrove Construction Question

Don't even bother with condo-hotel


Dear B.R.:

Condo-hotels ... ugh -- and at $1,000 per square foot! I marvel at the consummate gullibility of a trusting, easily exploitable and greedy American consumer.

While I don't offer guarantees, I'm going to make an exception in your case and give you an outright guaranteed maybe that today's value of this condo-hotel in Las Vegas will be a heck of a lot less when you try to sell that property six months or a year later. I will also give you an absolute guaranteed maybe that your interest costs, insurance expenses, maid service, condo fees, real estate taxes and maintenance can exceed, by orders of magnitude, the rental income you want to believe you will earn.

I will give you a definite guaranteed maybe that, while annual hotel occupancy rates average 75.3 percent, the yearly occupancy rate for your condo-hotel unit will not exceed 40 percent. I will offer you as well a solid, guaranteed maybe that the rental income you naively believe you'll get will be enormously lower than your expectations. And I'm giving a straight-out guaranteed maybe -- even if your condo-hotel unit has a 75 percent occupancy rate -- that your rental income will fall steeply short of your rental expenses and at the end of the year, you will have a bleak, black tax loss.

If you try to sell that absurd investment a year later, I doubt that you will get 70 percent of your money back. I don't know of a single, living soul whose rental income from a condo-hotel exceeds expenses. The phenomenal rate at which these silly things are being converted or built in popular hot spots around the country reminds me of the boom/bust cycle in the tech stock and dot-com fiasco five years ago and the recent explosion/implosion of the condo-housing market. I think you're looking at a potentially devastating condo-hotel glut in a couple of years that may force a large percentage of these properties into foreclosure.

Before you shell out $690,000 for that glitz, glint, glimmer and gleam, try some common-sense research, which may be difficult. After a $70,000 down payment, you are going to pay 7 percent on a $620,000 mortgage, which is $43,000 in interest costs. Assume that your unit is rented 75 percent of the time (that's a generous assumption) at $275 a night, which is $75,000 a year in rental income. However, 50 percent of that rental income stays with the hotel, so you keep $37,500. Right off the bat, you're $5,500 in the hole. Include taxes ($5,000), maintenance ($5,000), management fees ($4,000), maid service ($10,000), plus insurance ($2,000) and your losses exceed $31,000 a year.

I hope you recall the enthusiastic time-share boom 20 years ago and remember how it went bust with a bang. Tens of thousands of saps and schnooks like you fell for the razzle-dazzle sales pitches, got gulled by sweet-tongued salesmen and signed their names on the proverbial "sucker's line." A year later, when they told their sales agents to sell the property, their agents responded, "To whom?"

I believe that most American consumers would eagerly buy a camel if a clever camel herder could figure out how to sell his camels for $100 down and $50 a month. Heck, Americans have already invested big bucks in herds of buffalo, ostriches, llamas and pot-bellied Vietnamese pigs, so why not a camel or an elephant?

"A sucker is born every minute, and a promoter born every hour to make certain no sucker is spared."

If you buy that condo-hotel in Las Vegas or even one in Miami, Orlando, or Fort Lauderdale, Fla., make sure that your group health policy covers psychiatric care because you're going to need it.

I hate to be the defender of condotels but just as there are disastrous investments of single family residences or rental property, there are also good ones and the same thing applies to this classfication. There is a huge difference between the Vegas tower described here and any other property that is classified as a condotel solely because there is a check in office on site and they allow nightly rentals.

I get bombarded with 'investment opportunities' and have looked at some proposals for condotels similar to the one above. While what he says may be true in this exact scenario, the blanket statement regarding expenses does not apply in all cases. In fact, in most cases, the 40-50% commission covers all those other expenses mentioned except real estate taxes. and hoa dues. When the management companies rent the place, the maid fees and management fees are part of the commission. Maintenance also typically comes from the gross rent as the management companies keep the contents standard from unit to unit but as always, it depends on the agreement.

But either way, if you overpay for a property, you will be in the hole. Most condotels do not require you to sign up with the management company so you could rent it yourself and not pay commission, just as many do with standard condo's or rental homes. Again, every property is different so keep attempting to paint it with a broad brush. As I said previously, the usual thing that makes a property a condotel is some onsite check in and nightly rentals.

Sorry to say that I own a condotel (not my property in sowal) and my rental income does exceed my expenses. It almost did from day 1. It's not a high rise but it is classified as condotel.
 

JaxGirl

Beach Comber
Apr 8, 2007
12
0
Nashville
New hotel?

Last summer, while in Seagrove, I saw a large sign at the corner of 30A by the Seagrove Market. I think it was advertising a new hotel being built. Anyone know the name of this development or did I dream it? Thanks!
 

jules33

Beach Comber
Apr 10, 2007
32
0
alabama
Re: New hotel?

it hasn't opened yet....don't know when it will. It is supposed to be called hotel viridian I beleive
 

seacrestkristi

Beach Fanatic
Nov 27, 2005
3,539
36
Re: Seagrove Construction Question

Is everything about the almighty dollar? Condotels are going to overcrowd this area, and ruin the small hometown feel. Why are more of these these being permitted in our county? I just don't get it. :doh: It's soon to be hotel city instead of a small hometown feel. :nono1:
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,648
1,773
Re: Seagrove Construction Question

Is everything about the almighty dollar?

You obviously didn't attend the Board of County Commissioners' Meeting this evening. If you would have, you would know that the answer to your aforementioned question is, yes.
 

Babyblue

Beach Fanatic
Mar 1, 2006
526
6
Seagrove Beach
Re: New hotel?

Last summer, while in Seagrove, I saw a large sign at the corner of 30A by the Seagrove Market. I think it was advertising a new hotel being built. Anyone know the name of this development or did I dream it? Thanks!

There is a new Hotel being built in Grayton. A little up from 30-A on 283.
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,648
1,773
Re: New hotel?

There is a new Hotel being built in Grayton. A little up from 30-A on 283.
That is the Grayton Grande, and it is for sale, so we'll see how much of it that Jay actually completes. My guess is that he is completing just enough infrastructure to satisfy his D.O. I did notice that he decided to build the boardwalk through the back of the property prior to offering any condos for purchase, unlike Redfish Village. :clap_1:
 
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