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Lake View Too

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2008
6,971
8,478
Eastern Lake
I have no idea what will come out of this. I don't think the politicians in congress have the nads to do what's needed to be done. It's going to take another major financial crisis, which will probably revolve around our federal debt. That won't happen in the next two years.



I don't think they will improve things much. That needs to happen over an extended period of time on it's own. They'll just stop the democrats from making it worse. ;-)

A little simplistic of you to think that the Dems could have an impact, one way or the other, in 20 months, on a problem that Stockman said has been going on for 30 years. This is the legacy of Reaganomics. His own man said so.
 

AndrewG

Beach Fanatic
Mar 10, 2010
680
127
Lakeview, clearly the last 20 months things haven't gotten better only worse. 75% of Americans agree as of yesterday (highest since the 70's under Carter).

Ridiculous out of control spending along with a disastrous healthcare law shoved down our throats and you have an incompetent gov't without balance or brakes. There's a total void of competent leadership. the inspirational hope and change platform is very much dead. I want balance restored before it gets worse.

I don't think this election is about new ideas, you'll see those in 2012. It's about repudiating the arrogance and narcissism run amok. You can't not listen to the will of the American people simply because you think the ends justify the means.

On another note it's embarassing that Obama can't give a speech without teleprompters. He appears completely unpresidential. True leaders can speak off the cuff not having to worry about appeasing everyone. This is what made Clinton and Reagan so charismatic.
 
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Matt J

SWGB
May 9, 2007
24,862
9,670
Todays poll showed over 75% of Americans think they're worse off.

Lakeview, clearly the last 20 months things haven't gotten better only worse. 75% of Americans agree as of yesterday (highest since the 70's under Carter).

Ridiculous out of control spending along with a disastrous healthcare law shoved down our throats and you have an incompetent gov't without balance or brakes. There's a total void of competent leadership. the inspirational hope and change platform is very much dead. I want balance restored before it gets worse.

I don't think this election is about new ideas, you'll see those in 2012. It's about repudiating the arrogance and narcissism run amok. You can't not listen to the will of the American people simply because you think the ends justify the means.

On another note it's embarassing that Obama can't give a speech without teleprompters. He appears completely unpresidential. True leaders can speak off the cuff not having to worry about appeasing everyone. This is what made Clinton and Reagan so charismatic.

Can you provide a source for that?
 

Lake View Too

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2008
6,971
8,478
Eastern Lake
Lakeview, clearly the last 20 months things haven't gotten better only worse. 75% of Americans agree as of yesterday (highest since the 70's under Carter).

Ridiculous out of control spending along with a disastrous healthcare law shoved down our throats and you have an incompetent gov't without balance or brakes. There's a total void of competent leadership. the inspirational hope and change platform is very much dead. I want balance restored before it gets worse.

I don't think this election is about new ideas, you'll see those in 2012. It's about repudiating the arrogance and narcissism run amok. You can't not listen to the will of the American people simply because you think the ends justify the means.

On another note it's embarassing that Obama can't give a speech without teleprompters. He appears completely unpresidential. True leaders can speak off the cuff not having to worry about appeasing everyone. This is what made Clinton and Reagan so charismatic.

I've asked repeatedly on just what the Republicans would do differently if they were voted into office. It has been proven that tax cuts and deregulation don't work. The economic collapse of 2007 under the Republican administration proved that. The bailouts that everybody screams about were initiated by George Bush. The unfunded wars were initiated by George Bush. From your post up above, you're saying the Republicans don't really have any good new ideas but give them the reins anyway? "We'll come up something by 2012". Is this the new Republican rallying slogan?
 
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30ashopper

SoWal Insider
Apr 30, 2008
6,845
3,471
58
Right here!
I've asked repeatedly on just what the Republicans would do differently if they were voted into office. It has been proven that tax cuts and deregulation don't work. The economic collapse of 2007 under the Republican administration proved that. The bailouts that everybody screams about were initiated by George Bush. The unfunded wars were initiated by George Bush. From your post up above, you're saying the Republicans don't really have any good new ideas but give them the reins anyway? "We'll come up something by 2012". Is this the new Republican rallying slogan?

You can make that statement a thousand times, it doesn't make it true. ;-) I'll try to put together a graph of gdp growth and margin tax rates, so we can assess their effect properly.
 

Lake View Too

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2008
6,971
8,478
Eastern Lake
You can make that statement a thousand times, it doesn't make it true. ;-) I'll try to put together a graph of gdp growth and margin tax rates, so we can assess their effect properly.

Virtually everyone points to the deregulation of the mortgage industry and the unregulated derivitives market, as a prime cause of the collapse. Do you dispute that? John Stockman, a Republican, who is in a position to know about the U.S. buget since he was budget director for Reagan, and still follows it closely, said that the tax cuts implemented by Reagan, and further enhanced by the Bush presidents, have created a false sense of prosperity and economic growth over the last 30 years. I don't know Stockman at all, but if a man comes forward and admits that policies he had a major hand in are partially responsible for the economic collapse, he has my attention and my respect.
 

30ashopper

SoWal Insider
Apr 30, 2008
6,845
3,471
58
Right here!
Virtually everyone points to the deregulation of the mortgage industry and the unregulated derivitives market, as a prime cause of the collapse. Do you dispute that? John Stockman, a Republican, who is in a position to know about the U.S. buget since he was budget director for Reagan, and still follows it closely, said that the tax cuts implemented by Reagan, and further enhanced by the Bush presidents, have created a false sense of prosperity and economic growth over the last 30 years. I don't know Stockman at all, but if a man comes forward and admits that policies he had a major hand in are partially responsible for the economic collapse, he has my attention and my respect.

I agree some legislation passed that allowed banks to over leverage was at fault here. I don't consider this or any other area a "prime cause" however.

I don't know about a false sense of prosperity. I started earning real income in the 90's, those years felt pretty real, and very prosperous. As far as economic growth goes, annual percentage change in gdp growth has been fairly constant over the last 60 years.
 

AndrewG

Beach Fanatic
Mar 10, 2010
680
127
Lakeview,

You're wrong. You sound like Al Gore as if you know and it's not worth debating when in fact the opposite is true. Tax cuts create jobs.

Everything is about balance. Tax cuts mixed with limited deregulation is needed now more than ever.

You seem a little frustrated...
 

scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,706
3,339
Sowal
I can't wait for election returns (and for this mess to be over) - I really don't think it will be the crushing Republican victory you are expecting.

Yes, I expect Republicans to gain seats, but you seem to think St. Peter (because Jesus is a liberal) and Ronald Reagan are going to appear above the Capitol building and hand Boehner a gavel and tax cut bills carved on stone tablets.
 

AndrewG

Beach Fanatic
Mar 10, 2010
680
127
This isn't a mess it's more like a revival. Just saw on CNN that 39% of voters are voting solely to stop Obama policies. That's a massive crushing number. It will be interesting tonight either way.

I can't wait for election returns (and for this mess to be over) - I really don't think it will be the crushing Republican victory you are expecting.

Yes, I expect Republicans to gain seats, but you seem to think St. Peter (because Jesus is a liberal) and Ronald Reagan are going to appear above the Capitol building and hand Boehner a gavel and tax cut bills carved on stone tablets.
 
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