Led away in Handcuffs

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

....But, at least there is talk being generated...... I agree that some of the off the cuff statements may be a little silly, but silence is not the answer., imo.

Agreed.

I just wish certain people could open their minds a tad and quit trying to equate me with some evil villain: things are the way they are for a reason (good or bad) and I didn't have a thing to do with it. I guess I have become the local "whipping boy". I have been very conscious to not let my posts "spiral down" or be "pulled down".

I don't own in the REREAT. I didn't call the sheriff. I have never run off a single kid from our beach. On and on. Yet tourists are being arrested and some here seem to want to blame me because I support private property rights.

I feel this thread would be way too one sided without my input because of the same ole' players. So in essence, "talk is being generated" as you say. I just wish the personal attacks would go away so that we can focus on the subject at hand. If one disagrees, just simply say so and why, otherwise say nothing. I have put forth several questions to stimulate such discussion.

 

[scooterbug44]

I see plenty of open sand and water and people enjoying themselves.

What was I supposed to see?

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Fourth of July weekend is the buisest weekend of the year. There wasn't a beach in Florida that looked any different. Leave it to you to post that photo and expect ANYONE to believe it is like that all the time. If you can' take a few holiday weekends of the year, then you are living in the wrong place. Maybe a place that doesn't cater to tourism would be better for you.

You basically stated "...someone sitting on one patch of sand does not prevent someone else from using another nearby patch".
I simply posted a recent picture that showed where your statement might not always be true.

I understand what you're saying. Here's a question for you. What do you think the Beaches of South Walton will look like in 10 years in terms of tourist density?

 

[1st in 59]

Look a little closer at the picture Yippie and you might get a clue about the problem. If everyone brought just a chair or a towel or a single beach umbrella, the beach would be one-fourth as crowded. But no, the standard now is to bring a tent that can cover a dozen people. If you look at the tents, most have empty chairs under them. A lot of the tent-pitchers set up at the crack of dawn, or even worse, they leave their tents up day-and-night all week. Many of the tent pitchers have additional chairs that they set up at water's edge. Two or four people now use the space of 15-20. The eroded and narrower beach only aggravates the problem. It begins to take on the look of a gypsy caravan that's settled into an oasis.

So when your average tourist strolls down to the beach at 10 or 11 in the morning, there's nowhere to go. That's the problem I had when I rented at the Inn at Blue Mountain the week of the 4th.

Perhaps a ban on tent pitching, or at least overnight tents, would help alleviate much of the congestion and bickering.

Just trying to think creatively on solutions, rather than useless name-calling, insults and class warfare.

 

[Mango]

Smiling Joe, Bobby J, Dave Rauschkolb and some of the others:

While it is admirable that you are standing up for the "common person", therein lies the dichotomy of your beliefs.

Without the laws and the associated enforcement, not even the "common person" would be safe from "popular opinion".

There are laws and we all live with them. Most are good and some are bad. Private property rights are a good thing. To erode these rights would be setting a precedence and threat to other constitutional rights that we ALL enjoy.


Some have mentioned Costa Rica, Bahamas and such and their superior property "rules". There are choices for all of us:
1. live with the idea of private property as the law requires
2. move to Costa Rica
3. (the best for last) buy out the beach front property and convert the sandy part to public; then the county could then resell the remaining property and structures, if any, back on the market where the net cost could actually be low...maybe even make a profit! - this is my solution and a viable one in my opinion). An alternative would be to simply purchase easement rights from gulf front owners. The entire beach doesn't have to be public, just enough to handle the tourist industry.

The supreme court may allow a fourth option after their decision regarding beach nourishment.

Complaining and moaning does nothing for solving the "problem". Possible solutions are what we need.

BTW, if all three of you guys go and get yourselves arrested, Dave will still have his business. Will you other two be able to keep your real estate license?

I am not a lawyer, but there are other States that have determined that past conveyances or grants of "sand" granted for private purposes violates the public trust doctrines.

I sincerely believe and hope that at some point, there will be a precedent setting case that will enable the Supreme Court to enact that "private sand" beaches that have been enjoyed historically in the past by, as you put it, us "commoners", can continue to do so without violation.

BTW, just curious, do gulf front owners pay real estate taxes on the deeded beach portion? if not, I would say that it's unconstitutional for the public to be denied access to the sand when taxes are not being personally made on by the owners of such.

I would like to add though that I have not seen this or heard about this in other areas of the beach and aware that this is limited to some areas positioning in light of their issues with density.

 

[ktschris]

Take a look at Blue Mountain Beach last week. Still believe your statement?

Is this the beach in question that is suppose to be private?

I was just curious, because it looks as if a majority of the umbrellas are from a service. I would think they would know if they can set up on private property or not.

 

[beachbob]

some personal observations i made yesterday:

-the access at the inn at blue mtn has a beach flag at that location. i believe it is maintained by the swfd. can anyone confirm?

-private property signs are not posted along the eastern and western sides of beach at "the retreat."

-trashcans, maintained by the tdc (tourist development council) are located at two entrances to "the retreat," as well as the inn at blue mountain, and white cliffs.

- private property signs on the inn at blue mountain and white cliffs, are at least fifty feet from the water's edge, as though only the upper portion of beach is the part which they are marking as private.

-the news story is on the beach, not here. for you reporters, there is plenty of action on the beach at the inn at blue mountain. their security guard is having chats with many people, and you can often find a sheriff's deputy on four wheeler at that location.

-there is plenty of wet sand and some nice sand bars in front of "the retreat" on which you might enjoy "the beach." Closest public entrance might be goatfeathers location if you also plan on parking. ;-)

- the property in "the retreat" on the western side of the beach, marked as "conservation easement" on the plat, has a few signs which appear to be identical to the gov't signs (public, used on private property) with the bottom cut off, warning people to stay off the dunes. They may have purchased them. I would want to know if they are using public funds for protection of private property.

- the retreat hired what appears to be an out of shape 300 pound black man as security. i'm old and cripple, but i think i could outrun him.

- after walking down to draper lake from the access at cr83, i'm reminded why i no longer enjoy going to blue mountain.

- since people walk no farther than they need to in order to enjoy the beach, "the retreat" is probably the least likely to have people sit on their property. most of the action seems to be at the inn at blue mtn and white cliffs.

-bella vita is packed with people on their little strip of beach (not sure if it is private), with the tackiest beach umbrellas. makes me want to




i wish someone from the tdc could tell me why we have public trashcans on private property. i am stuck on the one reason being that it must be used often by the public. i'm am very much in favor of trashcan availability, but if these want to keep everyone out, i say let them pick up their own garbage.

 

[Smiling JOe]

BTW, if all three of you guys go and get yourselves arrested, Dave will still have his business. Will you other two be able to keep your real estate license?

For sitting on the beach which has been used by the public for many years? I don't think I would have a problem keeping my license.


I doubt Dave's liquor license would be at risk for a simple charge of tresspass, especially if the Courts rule in his favor.

BMBV, Dave's business caters to more non-owners of The Retreat, Inn at Blue Mtn, and White Cliffs, than it does owners. If the public grows tired of six rows of umbrellas on small patches of sand, they will stop coming to SoWal altogether. Dave has every right to object if he feels the need to do so.

 

[Smiling JOe]

Sage advice. What does concern me, however, is news will spread of the hard line approach being taken and all of a sudden, a light bulb goes off in the heads of individual gulf front property owners. Then we'll see an epidemic of people who are set up in front of individual residences being asked to move.

I think these three properties will be seeing many more people over the next few months, than they would if they didn't try to kick people off the beach.

I think if something isn't done immediately regarding this situation, more beaches in SoWal will be in jeopardy in the near future.

 

[scooterbug44]

If everyone brought just a chair or a towel or a single beach umbrella, the beach would be one-fourth as crowded. But no, the standard now is to bring a tent that can cover a dozen people. If you look at the tents, most have empty chairs under them. A lot of the tent-pitchers set up at the crack of dawn, or even worse, they leave their tents up day-and-night all week. Many of the tent pitchers have additional chairs that they set up at water's edge. Two or four people now use the space of 15-20. The eroded and narrower beach only aggravates the problem. It begins to take on the look of a gypsy caravan that's settled into an oasis.

So when your average tourist strolls down to the beach at 10 or 11 in the morning, there's nowhere to go. That's the problem I had when I rented at the Inn at Blue Mountain the week of the 4th.

Perhaps a ban on tent pitching, or at least overnight tents, would help alleviate much of the congestion and bickering.

I think that no tents is a great solution to relieve overcrowding, but would be hard to publicize and enforce!

I was under the impression that nothing was allowed on the beach overnight anyway.

When I looked at the picture I saw space for many low impact and tent free scooterbugs, not the SUV type beachgoer who takes more to the beach than I pack when evacuating for a hurricane ;-).