Led away in Handcuffs

So in addition to the muddy legal issues & enforcement questions the "security" can't effectively communicate w/ violators?

I'd love to see the "private beach" or "no trespassing" signs get tagged per the new TDC campaign!

I forgot to mention that while there, I also saw a small shark (maybe 3-4ft long) come swimming in, but no one seemed to notice. This was right after I started noticing big schools of tiny bait fish hugging the water's edge.

BMBV,
I was asked if I was concerned how this "private beach" access would effect my RE Business. My comment was I would not have a RE business if the beaches were private. I also do not think you should give the land away. You do not own it! You can not give something away you do not own. ;-) See quote at bottom of the page.

Sorry Bobby. It certainly appears I'm wasting your time and you're wasting my time. You never seem to address any my questions to any level of satisfaction. You yell above what is obviously not the case and then put a winkie after it. Well after 700+ posts in this thread, you and I are just dancing in circles.

Don't worry about your business. Many here who own property without guaranteed dedicated private beach will probably enlist your services since you probably represent their point of view. True their property values may take a hit (as the law is today), but that won't hurt you in the long run.

Perhaps if you had not alienated so many gulf front property owners with your seawall rhetoric and now the private beach issue, you might have a few gulf front listings that would balance your "portfolio".

Will you advertise beach access if you receive a listing for Duchess's home (as an example)? I know this sounds like a question I asked you a LONG time ago about whether you would sell a gulf front property that had a seawall.

How about we agree to disagree (as they say)? I don't want it to get personal as we both love the area for most of the same reasons.

Perhaps everything has been said up to this point. But I still want Duchess and others to keep us posted on "current events".

At least the hurricane gods are giving us a reprieve as all this gets worked out (problem du jour as some have pointed out).

Notice that this sign, posted at the Inn at Blue Mountain Beach doesn't state, No Trespassing, except for ingress and egress "to the Gulf of Mexico," nor does the sign say "to the Mean High Water Mark." It reads, "to the beach," as in, you can walk across our property to get onto the beach. If they didn't allow the public to sit on "their" beach, wouldn't the sign read differently? That leads me to believe that I have permission to be on the beach without committing trespass.

You know popcorn has a lot of calories! If you're waiting for "some action" in response to Andy A., I'm sorry but you will be disappointed (or get fat). I have no repsonse as he stated his opinion and why. He is a neighbor and I'll respect his opinion.

An opinion is a far cry from total and intentional misinterpretation of our laws as they are.

With the exception of security guards trying to dictate where people can be, it was Chamber of Commerce kind of afternoon.

'are permits required from the DEP to post signs on the beach? '

The DEP permits location of signs, but what is written on the signs is not their business. So you can pretty much write whatever you like as long as code enforcement don't care. Contact the DEP for info - the # I posted this morning

I had to laugh at your story on the security guard. Is ther any way you can video it and dump it on YOUTUBE? You would be doing humanity a service

:funn:

Booby J with the assistance and guidance from Flipper, Nemo, and countless ocean critters will be embarking on a week long journey cross seas to Costa Rica as they discuss "Sovereignty of the Seas, Have Humans really defined the extent of this territorial Sea"?

When they reach Costa Rica, Bobby will surf.

As told to Mango, tell the Board (in his best Terminator voice)
"I'll Be Back"

My family and I will be coming down next week. If you see someone in handcuffs with a pink baseball cap on, it is me. I will have plenty of sunscreen on so when the "LAW" puts the handcuff's on me, I will be able to slip out and run around the beach until he catches me (in the wet part of the sand mind you!!) And then I may just drop my pants and moon him! That will be one ugly sight! People may think it is some kinda sea creature washed up on the beach... This stuff is out of control, let's organize and fight the good fight... BRING IT LAW MAN! I have my lawyer on speed dial and have warned him that I may need him once again! I love a good Sit In! What about Marching with Signs up and down the beach!!! I am sure the media would eat that up!

Marching with signs sounds great, but in front of The Retreat, the only person who will see you is the security guard.

What should our signs state?

Booby J with the assistance and guidance from Flipper, Nemo, and countless ocean critters will be embarking on a week long journey cross seas to Costa Rica as they discuss "Sovereignty of the Seas, Have Humans really defined the extent of this territorial Sea"?

When they reach Costa Rica, Bobby will surf.

As told to Mango, tell the Board (in his best Terminator voice)
"I'll Be Back"

Adios Bobby J!!! Enjoy those public beaches!

Marching with signs sounds great, but in front of The Retreat, the only person who will see you is the security guard.

What should our signs state?

Here are a few that I can think of right off the top of my head:

Mother Nature Called and said "Share her beach or else!"

Got Beach!

Don't be a Beach Hog

Share the Beauty

Empty the sand out of your pants and play nice!

The other ones are not so clean so I will keep those to myself!

Here are a few that I can think of right off the top of my head:

Mother Nature Called and said "Share her beach or else!"

Got Beach!

Don't be a Beach Hog

Share the Beauty

Empty the sand out of your pants and play nice!

The other ones are not so clean so I will keep those to myself!

I like the idea of some signs being marched in front of the properties, but most of the ones you mention, insinuate that the property owners have more rights to the property than I believe they actually have.

I do like the "Don't be a Beach Hog!" I wonder if I should add some nasty words. I somewhat like, "It's the Freakin' Beach, not the Private Beach," or, "Go screw yourself," or, "God's Beach," or Dave's quote, something like,"Saying you own the beach is like saying that you own the sky."

I like the idea of some signs being marched in front of the properties, but most of the ones you mention, insinuate that the property owners have more rights to the property than I believe they actually have.

I do like the "Don't be a Beach Hog!" I wonder if I should add some nasty words. I somewhat like, "It's the Freakin' Beach, not the Private Beach," or, "Go screw yourself," or, "God's Beach," or Dave's quote, something like,"Saying you own the beach is like saying that you own the sky."

Yes, we can take out Share. You are right that the word insinuates that they have more rights.

I like all the ones that you stated!

I think having t-shirts made up with a slogan and wearing those also would help.

You go girl. I'll be surfing with Bobby, I am already in Costa where the beaches are free to all.

My family and I will be coming down next week. If you see someone in handcuffs with a pink baseball cap on, it is me. I will have plenty of sunscreen on so when the "LAW" puts the handcuff's on me, I will be able to slip out and run around the beach until he catches me (in the wet part of the sand mind you!!) And then I may just drop my pants and moon him! That will be one ugly sight! People may think it is some kinda sea creature washed up on the beach... This stuff is out of control, let's organize and fight the good fight... BRING IT LAW MAN! I have my lawyer on speed dial and have warned him that I may need him once again! I love a good Sit In! What about Marching with Signs up and down the beach!!! I am sure the media would eat that up!

I recommend any protest be organized, respectful, and in the mean high tide water line. Being anything but honorable will just look bad. Stay within the law make your points heard and enjoy the beach with a smile.

Whomever previously remarked on the security not being familiar with the English language was spot on, and it isn't due to the security being foreigners. Today, I went to the access to observe. Before I walked far enough to see the Gulf, a security lady stopped me and began asking questions about where I was staying, where I was going, what I was carrying, etc, before proceeding to confuse the heck out of me with her directives on where I could sit on the beach. She sounded really confused herself. I just played along. She began by telling me that if I was going to sit on a towel (I had no chair in hand), that I had to be in the wet sand. I asked her what was the point of bringing a towel to the beach if it was going to be wet.

She said, "well, not the wet stuff. Let me show you."

We walked up to the top of the walkover where she pointed to toward the Gulf's edge, and said, "you see that part right there?" pointing to an area which is a good 200 ft away, "you can sit their, but The Retreat owns all of this."

I asked, "how could someone own the beach?"

The security guard replied, "talk to the Sheriff."

I said, "so you are telling me that I have to sit on the wet sand if I want to be on the beach. That doesn't make sense."

The lady replied, "You see that wet part? The County owns it."

I said, "So you mean I can sit on the dry sand?"

Security said, "no, you see where the wet sand is? You can sit where it isn't wet, but the water comes up to it."

I responded, "so if the water comes up to it, you are saying it isn't wet, and that it is dry?

She seemed more confused with her own information at this time. She again pointed to the area 200 ft from us, and said, "you see that area down there, you can sit on it."

I said, "that is very confusing."

Again she told me, as she shook her head at the craziness of the entire idea, and said, "talk to the Sheriff."

She went on her way, not to be seen again.

I will point out that I saw a few people set up on dry sand in front of The Retreat. They were not asked to leave or move during the hour I was there. I saw most of them walk down from the access at the Inn @BMB. There were other people set up on the line where the highest splash of water meets the dryer sand, and I saw a couple of other people sitting in the wet sand, getting splashed by the waves.

I did notice that several people came out from the gated entrance at the Inn @ BMB and walked down to The Retreat property to set up camp. The beach in front of The Retreat, was otherwise deserted, except for two or three people who appeared to be in some Retreat chairs, way down the beach. In front of the Inn @ BMB, the entire beach front was shoulder to shoulder umbrellas and chairs. It seemed to me that maybe the private property crap could have started as a fight between the Inn @ BMB and The Retreat.

Now imagine this... Pan to the right and now you see Rod Serling. He says: "Imagine a world of sugar white sands and emerald green waters all for the public to enjoy. You cross the walkover to begin your egress, the beach is within your grasp. Your feet are moving but you are not going anywhere. You are surrounded by rent-a-cops holding you back. Confusion ensues and your view of the water is getting blurry. You have entered the Moron Zone."

Now imagine this... Pan to the right and now you see Rod Serling. He says: "Imagine a world of sugar white sands and emerald green waters all for the public to enjoy. You cross the walkover to begin your egress, the beach is within your grasp. Your feet are moving but you are not going anywhere. You are surrounded by rent-a-cops holding you back. Confusion ensues and your view of the water is getting blurry. You have entered the Moron Zone."

Why "I own the beach" could be considered false and misleading

Beach property owners haven't build physical boundaries like fences on the beach in question.

So, when you say "I own the beach" it's like someone saying their private driveway that connects to the freeway "I own the freeway", when they don't. They just own a very small area of land that happens to connect to the freeway.

This verbiage inflates a persons expectation of area and value. How big is the portion of the beach you say you own? "I own the beach", well that could be 2 miles long and 200' wide. Just because you're connected to it doesn't imply that you own it. You may have part ownership in it, but entire ownership is very rare. Full ownership could be a private pond or lake with a beach area. Contact your attorney for a pro's opinion.

First amendment:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/index.php/First_amendment
'The right to assemble allows people to gather for peaceful and lawful purposes.'

Just as you can gather and protest in front of the White House, so should you be allowed to gather and protest in front of the ocean.

You would think, huh? You may want to call the Sheriff of WaltonHam for his permission :funn:

I think an excellent buisness opportunity in WaltonHam is...

'Water proof beach towels' :funn:

It should come with a beach map of WaltonHam showing the wet areas the 'Water proof beach towels' can be used to lie on the WET SAND

'Dry Sand Beach Towel' sales would surely plummet in WaltonHam because there is nowhere to use them. A dinosaur , a relic of the past, to be displayed in museums world wide in the area of 'beach recreation'

:rofl: MNAO

;-) Smiling JOe, I know the exact female security guard
you ran into yesterday. If only I hadn't been driving back
to Atlanta, I would have joined you on the beach so we both
could have messed with her mind.

Like I said, these guards aren't good with English. It's their
first language all right, but if you keep asking them rational,
reasonable questions, they get all flustered. Like how dry
sand can be considered wet sand, etc. I repeated asked
her, "Am I trespassing here?", then I'd move a few feet and
say, "Am I trespassing here?". I was geniunely trying to
get a feel for the property parameters she was trying to
enforce. This was on Tuesday.

She doesn't like me very much! I drew a crowd and had
a nice chat with the sheriff deputy on his ATV. And yes,
it was also a picture-perfect, chamber of commerce kind
of day Tuesday. Keep challenging these guards. Any
kind of questions really make their heads hurt. Of course,
when asked to move, I have done so efficiently and
civilly.

My hubby and I have also made some phone calls and are
pursuing this matter away from the beach. As I wrote
before, the manager at the Blue Mountain Beach Club has
legal evidence (which I've seen) that shows that there
is not only ingress/egress access to the beach but also
use of the beach within so many feet to either side of
the access. Funny, no one wants to see that, either!
He also disputes what the guards are calling the MHW line.
He asserts that it's much further away from the water line.
That fact alone would make many people much happier.

Whomever said that this is probably a pissing contest
between the Inn and the Retreat is spot on. I called my
friend in the Retreat (whose hubby used to be head of the
HOA there) and she reminded me that a couple of years
ago the access was mistakenly built a couple of feet
onto Retreat lot #1 by the Inn. If you look at it from the
beach you can see a bit of a curve to the steps closest
to the beach. The Inn had already replenished the dunes
there and didn't want to undo the work they did and put
a 'jog' into the last part of the staircase. I believe that
the encroachment was unintentional, but it's the Inn
problem to fix. As I understand it, once they have to tear
it down and rebuild, they have to provide temporary beach
access for everyone else, which means tramping through
their pool area, I suppose. Delicious!

That's all for now, thanks to everyone who's posted which
such good info. I understand Mr. Gonzales will be arraigned
on August 8th. This will be important; obviously I hope the
judge decides to consider the case.

A couple of years ago we had a rally at one of our beaches to protest the inadequate facilities at beaches for disabled persons.

Boy, if anything gets the attention of local government, its the ADA coming down on them.

The Texas beach access group ( see www.publicshore.com) is very active in enforcing ADA regulations in Galveston

Take a wheel chair person to visit city hall and check the dimentions of the toilets if they're ADA compliant. Then check the ramp slopes, even if they have ramps, check the door pressure to open, check the schools, check every government complex, then start checking local businesses.

Beach access is for everyone, not just those that can walk to the beach. Some people ride on wheel chairs. Lets keep that in mind and enforce ADA rules.

See http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/stdspdf.htm for ADA rules and compliance and remember to have fun

The Tool Kit is designed to teach state and local government officials how to identify and fix problems that prevent people with disabilities from gaining equal access to state and local government programs, services, and activities. It will also teach state and local officials how to conduct accessibility surveys of their buildings and facilities to identify and remove architectural barriers to access.

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/pcatoolkit/toolkitmain.htm

AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT - INFORMATION FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT
Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), people who have disabilities are entitled to the same services law enforcement provides to anyone else. They may not be excluded or segregated from services, be denied services, or otherwise be treated differently than other people

ADA Specialists are available to provide ADA information and answers to technical questions on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday from 10:30 a.m. until 4:30 p.m. or on Thursday from 12:30 p.m. until 4:30 p.m. (Eastern Time).

Call 800-514-0301

Duchess, I had been reading about the Inn's encroachment onto the Retreat's property. Yesterday, I notice the angle jog in the walkover. I also notice little markers with "property line" written on them, a couple of feet to the west of the sidewalk, leading to the walkover. The Inn's wall is a few feet farther west from the property line markers. Just shooting an eyeball line down the property line markers, the path to the walkover, and most of the walkover, appear to be on the eastern side of the narrow access, so the slight angle of the walkover, back toward the west, may still be on the Inn's property. , but the Inn's wall certainly appears to be on the other side of the property line which is marked.

What I found even more interesting, are the private property signs bordering both sides of the access to that which is being reported as a public walkover and access. It seems that the Inn doesn't want us on "their" property, but they didn't care that they were on the Retreat's property when they built an 8ft wall. With all of the private property signs beside the access walkway, a normal person would believe that the entire access is private, and I think the County needs to post signs noting that it is public if it indeed is public.

Someone mentioned that in the Plat for the Inn at Blue Mountain Beach, it calls for five public parking spaces. Those spaces are not marked as public. There is parking noted as "visitor parking" and there is parking for Village Beach Club memebers' golf carts, but nothing noted as "public parking." The County needs to get on this, too, if their is indeed public parking on the property.

Beach access is for everyone, not just those that can walk to the beach. Some people ride on wheel chairs. Lets keep that in mind and enforce ADA rules.

I have yet to see a walkover which wasn't blocked with many pairs of shoes or wagons and baby strollers.