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Bobby J

Beach Fanatic
Apr 18, 2005
4,043
600
Blue Mountain beach
www.lifeonshore.com
The case by case is up to landowner filing a suit against the person enjoying the beach. The police have no authority to make an arrest. It can be reported to the police. It is in the homeowners court to file suit and let the jury decide from there. If I was arrested recently, I would make sure I had a good attorney and be looking into false arrest.

I was looking at this thing all wrong all along. According to AG, the burden of proof lies in the hands of the HO on a "case by case" basis that is why the police can not act as agent for HO.
 
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GoodWitch58

Beach Fanatic
Oct 10, 2005
4,816
1,921
1st in '59,

it's too bad you apparently had a bad experience with either a Realtor or a developer, however, IMO, your personal comments about SJ and Bobby are over the line.

How would you feel if someone generalized in that manner about you and your profession...

Just as in any area and any profession, there are those who are ethical and do a good job, and then there are others...
 

1st in 59

Beach Comber
Jan 22, 2006
19
2
1st in '59,

it's too bad you apparently had a bad experience with either a Realtor or a developer, however, IMO, your personal comments about SJ and Bobby are over the line.

How would you feel if someone generalized in that manner about you and your profession...

Just as in any area and any profession, there are those who are ethical and do a good job, and then there are others...

All I'm saying is there's a lot of people that have deeds and titles for beachfront property that deeds their property to the mean high water line. The vast majority of those people were led to believe by SOMEONE when they completed their real estate transactions that that property was indeed (no pun intended) theirs. Bobby J and Smiling Joe claim that everyone knows that no one owns any of the beach - it's all public. So SOMEBODY'S been brokering a hell of a lot of transactions over and over again over a long period of time, knowing (in their heart of hearts) that what's being sold is a sham. I assume that the realtors in this community are knowledgeable about the local laws and practices.

Help me understand what it is I'm missing???
 

Duchess

Beach Lover
Sep 11, 2005
121
59
Blue Mountain Beach/Reynoldstown
:bang: This happened to me today around 5 pm on the beach in Blue
Moutain. I am an owner on Redfish Circle. I walked to the beach access
between the Inn and the Retreat and set up a chair and a towel on the
Retreat side of things. All was fine for about an hour, at which time
I was approached by a security guard and his sidekick. I was asked to move and I did. He wanted to call the Sheriff because of all the questions I was asking. He did, and I called the manager of the Blue Mountain Beach Club.
Ultimately, we had a beach-side fiesta consisting of me, two guards, two Sheriff's Office guys, and another Redfish homeowner. Where were all you Sowallers to bring me a maragarita? Sheesh!

I learned a lot today that I wanted to 'share' with the other users of this board. I believe that those of us who own on Redfish and other members
of the Beach Club/BMB Masters Association have the right to use that
access and the beach there. I also believe that the public has the right to use that beach. The Beach Club Manager had documents with him to support those facts, none of which the guards or law were keen to inspect. I should point out that there were no private property signs on the Retreat side of things, only on the Inn's side. The Inn's signs were also not lined up perpendicularly to the beach, but kind of staggered.

The Sheriff folks are sick of this guy calling all the time. They said they can always tell when he's on duty. They are enforcing the MHW line until this issue can be elevated above them. They recommended the Manager call Charlie Crist's office, or at least Cindy Meadows' office. The Gonzalez case may solve all this, but it also may have to be decided by the state Supreme Court. I promise you, if you bring up what I can only remember as the "Tony Roma" Dayton Beach case, it will be disregarded beachside. They don't care, they just want to do their jobs and this is currently their least favorite task. They are sticking to the assertion that we only have ingress/egress rights to the MHW line, where we can then plant ourselves and our stuff.

I could name the names of those who were part of my group this afternoon, but I don't think it's necessary. What is pertinent is that others know what can happen on a lovely, almost barren beach in Walton County to folks just sitting in a chair with an adult beverage reading People magazine. I wanted to warn people about this on a more personal level. I was civil, just asked a lot of questions, as any homeowner would. The one security guard in particular I had a problem with (older male, for lack of a better description, his sidekick looked barely 20) was very argumentative and harrassing. I had heard about him from my family who visited over the week of July Fourth. True to form, he seems to target singles on the beach, evidently with the assumption that they won't challenge his rights. He verbally and physically threatened my brother-in-law on Saturday, July 7th. I did not witness it, but I believe my in-law and also believe his and my sis' first-hand accounts of this rent-a-cop physically removing people's belongings from the beach. I questioned him about this, and he admitted that he has relocated 'abondoned' property. These things (chairs, bags, towels) were left unattended because their owners were swimming in the Gulf of Mexico.

Additionally, he moves these items to the western side of the public beach access. This is considered by some to be owned by the Retreat. It seems that when the Inn rebuilt the public beach access, they mistakenly built it on Retreat land, or so it seems. So this guard moves people's stuff from Retreat/Inn land to Retreat land, which he admits.

I can't afford to get arrested. I was super-civil and did all I could to (successfully) stall the guard until the Club Manager arrived and we all chatted with the Sherriff Sargeant and his coworker. I can't be the next Senora Gonzalez and keep my job. I just know in my heart of hearts that this isn't right and I've seen plenty of evidence to suport that belief. I would be very interested to hear what you others think and what you would have done. I'll be down here until early Wednesday and will be out of the beach (by the water, natch) each day. I am upset about this and in particulary how that one guard has harrassed my family. He tried to get me but must not have noticed my spine, my brain, and my cell phone!

Thanks for reading this long rant, I feel a bit better already. I should also mention that nurse sharks (some small, one bigger) were spotted on the beach in BMB today. There was at least one bull shark sighted near Fort
Panic. According to one of the Sheriff dudes, he saw it leap from the water with a 100 lb tarpon it its mouth! I will be on the lookout tomorrow, for sure.
 

John R

needs to get out more
Dec 31, 2005
6,777
819
Conflictinator
All I'm saying is there's a lot of people that have deeds and titles for beachfront property that deeds their property to the mean high water line. The vast majority of those people were led to believe by SOMEONE when they completed their real estate transactions that that property was indeed (no pun intended) theirs. Bobby J and Smiling Joe claim that everyone knows that no one owns any of the beach - it's all public. So SOMEBODY'S been brokering a hell of a lot of transactions over and over again over a long period of time, knowing (in their heart of hearts) that what's being sold is a sham. I assume that the realtors in this community are knowledgeable about the local laws and practices.

Help me understand what it is I'm missing???

what you seem to missing is common sense. do you realize there are around a thousand realtors along the emerald coast? can you believe that some of this property was sold before Bobby or Smiling JOe received their licenses? Do you know where these two realtors actually sell most of their listings? Do you realize you look like an uneducated bully singling out two realtors who actually care about the same issues you and pretty much everyone on this board share. take a step back from the keyboard for a few days, reread you post, then apologize. you're way out of line.
 

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,306
387
.......My opinion: There are no ‘PRIVATE BEACHES’ in Florida....

.....Hence, to say a beach in Florida is a ‘PRIVATE BEACH’ should be considered both false and misleading.

---------------
Edited and added: I can't tell what Bobby's quotes are vs someone elses. I'm assuming it's Bobby's....it's at least his position I think. Also the link didn't work regarding the Walton Sun article.
---------------



Alrightynow. So what's the problem? Bobby's opinion trumps the Okaloosa County Sheriff, Walton County's Sheriff, Walton County TDC and the Florida Attorney General. I guess there's no need for the Supreme Court to decide on current SOB v Walton case; Bobby's got it figured.

I see the light now.
:blink:


Walton County’s TDC stated:
‘…beachgoers who set up tents and chairs in these areas may be asked to move”

My opinion: Private sand owners, those who own dry sand on public beaches, may file complaints with local law enforcement, but cannot use local law enforcement as their private agents, to enforce speculated trespassing violations.
I think the "opposing side" has pointed that out so is there a reason you bring that up? And isn't that typical regardless of WHERE the private property is? A sheriff simply doesn't go to everyone on private property and asks them to leave without a complaint from the owner.
From AGO 2002-38~ "The general public may continue to use the dry sand area for their usual recreational activities, not because the public has any interest in the land itself, but because of a right gained through custom to use this particular area of the beach as they have without dispute and without interruption for many years."

My opinion: The general public should be allowed to continue to use the dry sand area for their usual recreational activities until the private sand owner, those who own dry sand on public beaches, prove that no "customary right of use" by the public exists.

It’s up to the courts to decide if "customary right of use" of the dry sand on a particular beach exists and not the dry sand owner, not the local police and not the TDC.

From AGO 2002-38 ~ "However, portions of this property are subject to private ownership and until a court establishes a "customary right of use" by the public in such real property, the fee owners thereof may make complaints of trespass to local law enforcement officers as they occur."

This is exactly right and already discussed. The public does not have a right to trespass on ANY PARTICULAR PROPERTY without a court decision on a case by case basis. You've quoted it now admit it.
 
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BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,306
387
The case by case is up to landowner filing a suit against the person enjoying the beach. The police have no authority to make an arrest. It can be reported to the police. It is in the homeowners court to file suit and let the jury decide from there. If I was arrested recently, I would make sure I had a good attorney and be looking into false arrest.

I was looking at this thing all wrong all along. According to AG, the burden of proof lies in the hands of the HO on a "case by case" basis that is why the police can not act as agent for HO.
Nope. You're assumption above is incorrect and you know it. But nice try at attempting to twist things around to confuse those not fully up to speed.
 

Bobby J

Beach Fanatic
Apr 18, 2005
4,043
600
Blue Mountain beach
www.lifeonshore.com
---------------
Edited and added: I can't tell what Bobby's quotes are vs someone elses. I'm assuming it's Bobby's....it's at least his position I think. Also the link didn't work regarding the Walton Sun article.
---------------



Alrightynow. So what's the problem? Bobby's opinion trumps the Okaloosa County Sheriff, Walton County's Sheriff, Walton County TDC and the Florida Attorney General. I guess there's no need for the Supreme Court to decide on current SOB v Walton case; Bobby's got it figured.

I see the light now.
:blink:


I think the "opposing side" has pointed that out so is there a reason you bring that up? And isn't that typical regardless of WHERE the private property is? A sheriff simply doesn't go to everyone on private property and asks them to leave without a complaint from the owner.


This is exactly right and already discussed. The public does not have a right to trespass on ANY PARTICULAR PROPERTY without a court decision on a case by case basis. You've quoted it now admit it.


Wow BMBV, we have something in common. Your post was as confusing as mine.:D They can ask them to leave but can not arrest them. If they arrest them they are acting as an agent for the HO. They can issue a citation and the HO can file a civil suit against the "person enjoying a day at the beach". The HO then will need to prove on a case by case basis that this is private property. The burden of proof lies in the hands of the homeowner who will also run the risk of paying all court cost. I am glad you are seeing the light. About time...:wacko:
 

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,306
387
1st in '59,

it's too bad you apparently had a bad experience with either a Realtor or a developer, however, IMO, your personal comments about SJ and Bobby are over the line.

How would you feel if someone generalized in that manner about you and your profession...

Just as in any area and any profession, there are those who are ethical and do a good job, and then there are others...
Goodwitch58, since you think I would be happier living elsewhere ;-) , and since I do, then I am saying this as a very happy camper :D .

1st in '59 certainly doesn't need my help as myself and others have complimented the eloquence of his posts behind the scenes. He is spot on, IMO, about the real estate industry in general. It's a tough pill to swallow but none the less true, IMO.
 
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