A speed bump on 30A... As citizens strive to lower speed limit, bigger plans emerge | 30a, speed, change - Local News - WaltonSun.com
A SPEED BUMP ON 30A: As citizens strive to lower speed limit, bigger plans emerge
January 08, 2010 10:30 AM
By Matt Algarin
Will 45 be a thing of the past on 30A?
Friends of Scenic 30A and members of the public gathered on Jan. 4 to discuss lowering the speed limit on 30A to 35 mph for the entire 18.5 mile stretch. The change would let low-speed vehicles, like street-modified golf carts, share the roadway with cars.
Bill Freeze, Chairperson for the Friends, believes the change will have nothing but positive end results.
?These beaches have been voted as one of the 12 best places to see in 2010.? Freeze said. ?We have noticed that we need to educate the tourists and the residents about what we have here in paradise.?
Freeze added that LSVs have to be registered and licensed, which will provide additional income for the county.
About two dozen supportive residents and industry experts gathered to hear the proposals made by the group.
In order for an electric cart or LSV to share the roadway with cars, the speed limit can be no greater than 35 mph. There are currently four miles of roadway on 30A where the speed limit is 45 mph.
In addition to allowing LSVs to traverse the roadway, supporters say the change would help to alleviate some of the traffic by encouraging motorists who are in a hurry to use the feeder roads that run north and south to get to their destinations.
Graham Fountain, chief of special operations for the Sheriff?s Office, clarified that this only pertains to electric carts, not golf carts.
?Because it looks like a duck, talks like a duck and quacks like a duck, but it?s a goose,? Fountain said while describing that anyone who is caught driving a gas-powered cart on 30A would be ticketed.
?The sheriff?s office will be taking a neutral position on the topic,? Fountain said of the speed-limit change. ?We haven?t pulled traffic (data) to see how many crashes involved these types of vehicles.?
?We do have some concerns because 30A is a little atypical than the usual roads you may do this on,? Fountain added. ?When the building starts up again on 30A you are going to have a lot more dump trucks and mixers going up and down the road.?
Tim Paul, who is a former district five commissioner and developer of Topsail Village on 30A, said changing the speed limit should be the first step.
?I think the whole idea is to have a complete system,? Pauls said. ?You shouldn?t have to only be able to use your LSV on 30A. You should actually be able to make a useful trip with it.?
Tom Stein, the Director for the Friends of Scenic 30A, agreed.
Stein said he ?has always had a lifetime interest in public transit and was a cable car grip man in San Francisco for four years.
?With my background in public transit and in addition to living here for the past 30 years or so watching the traffic load increase here on 30A,? Stein said, ?it has led me to the conclusion that some kind of public transit needs to be established on 30A.?
Stein said that the time is imminent and that something has to happen now.
The Friends of Scenic 30A will be holding another public forum on the first Monday in February to discuss updates on traffic crashes and the price tag for redesigning 30A for a bike path and low speed vehicles.
Replies
285Beach Fanatic
Rdavies,
FTLOG, Highway 30a is a highway, road, street, etc.
It matters not what you semantically care to define it.
No one believes we should remove stop signs where they make sense.
This IS a safety issue.
I will gladly step forward and say that I personally don't want to slow down on the stretch of highway 30a that has a posted speed limit of 45mph so someone can ride their street legal golfcart or LSV on the highway.
This isn't a proSUV, gas guzzling, anti-environment rant.
I wish you'd come out of the closet earlier on convenience sakes rant - beautiful stuff.
Yes, its a highway, sure. Of course its still a 'highway' although I think it s a special and unique one in some respects - perhaps you don't? I think stop signs in the middle of it are completely appropriate now, although I'm sure many disagreed with these extra stops in Seaside or Rosemary way back when. I assume you'd agree that it's still a "Highway" for the 85% of it that's ALREADY defined as 35 MPH - right? If so, then why is making it cohesively 35MPH or less going ot hurt your feelings about it being such a "highway"?? I guess we'll never know.
Beach Fanatic
I'm not entering the debate, but I am posting some info from the National Motorists Association web page that I ran across.
No, I don't know where they get their data.
No, I don't know if they are a lobby group.
No, I don't know if it's really accurate.
Q. Isn't slower always safer?
A. No, federal and state studies have consistently shown that the drivers most likely to get into accidents in traffic are those traveling significantly below the average speed. According to an Institute of Transportation Engineers Study, those driving 10 mph slower than the prevailing speed are six times as likely to be involved in an accident. That means that if the average speed on an interstate is 70 mph, the person traveling at 60 mph is far more likely to be involved in an accident than someone going 70 or even 80 mph.
Q. Don't higher speed limits cause more accidents and traffic fatalities?
A. No, if a speed limit is raised to actually reflect real travel speeds, the new higher limit will make the roads safer. When the majority of traffic is traveling at the same speed, traffic flow improves, and there are fewer accidents. Speed alone is rarely the cause of accidents. Differences in speed are the main problem. Reasonable speed limits help traffic to flow at a safer, more uniform pace.
The bold sections seemed very applicable whether they are referring to highways or surface streets.
Speed Limits - Information, Studies, Laws, Legislation
Y'all may, now, get back to the business of flogging this horse!
Speed differentials are a great point, and are valid point of discussion, especially on a highway with such differences in traffic patterns - How do we cope with the fact that the average speed through Seaside is 10MPH in the summer, when the posted limit is much higher? You slow down and go with the flow-
Moderator
...How do we cope with the fact that the average speed through Seaside is 10MPH in the summer, when the posted limit is much higher? You slow down and go with the flow-
I am sooooo with you on that one. I can't ever think of a time where 30A was a consideration if I had to get somewhere quickly. That's what 98 is for. I will say, though, that the 98 scenario is totally different for us on the west end of 30A than those on the east where the cut throughs stop at 395.
Beach Fanatic
Amen
SWGB
I am sooooo with you on that one. I can't ever think of a time where 30A was a consideration if I had to get somewhere quickly. That's what 98 is for. I will say, though, that the 98 scenario is totally different for us on the west end of 30A than those on the east where the cut throughs stop at 395.
We used to use 30A as a shortcut years ago when 98 was two laned and a parking lot during the summer.
Beach Fanatic
We used to use 30A as a shortcut years ago when 98 was two laned and a parking lot during the summer.
amen! thanks for admitting its all about 1 minute of extra convenience.
umm. sorry if you live on Scenic 30A, you're going to have to leave a minute earlier in the future, in case you're stuck behind an LSV for 1 or 2 miles where you could have gone 45mPP ....
Like the above poster said, you're gonna have to find another route, or leave earlier (like 2 minutes).. let the violins play
Beach Fanatic
We used to use 30A as a shortcut years ago when 98 was two laned and a parking lot during the summer.
hey swg-boy, they decided to 4-lane 98 instead of 30A. Would you have preferred they 4 laned 30 A instead? or perhaps you'd prefer an elevated freeway through 30A like through Detroit, Philadelphia etc. A case study in urban planning - yes.
Sorry dude, you're livingin the wrong place .. Slowing people down, with narrow streets, stop signs, limits, etc... tends to creates livable communities.
Maybe you should go and picket the godfather of New Urbanisn when he comes to town... let him know how important it is for you to get to your job 1 minute earlier - and that you don't have the extra minute to leave earlier, or take "U.S." highway 98.
Beach Fanatic
amen! thanks for admitting its all about 1 minute of extra convenience.
umm. sorry if you live on Scenic 30A, you're going to have to leave a minute earlier in the future, in case you're stuck behind an LSV for 1 or 2 miles where you could have gone 45mPP ....
Like the above poster said, you're gonna have to find another route, or leave earlier (like 2 minutes).. let the violins play
Since they are NOT lowering the speed limit on 30a to 35mph, what the hell are you babbling about here? This thread is like a train wreck, it derailed when it struck that dead horse twenty miles back... :roll:
Edited
SWGB
amen! thanks for admitting its all about 1 minute of extra convenience.
umm. sorry if you live on Scenic 30A, you're going to have to leave a minute earlier in the future, in case you're stuck behind an LSV for 1 or 2 miles where you could have gone 45mPP ....
Like the above poster said, you're gonna have to find another route, or leave earlier (like 2 minutes).. let the violins play
hey swg-boy, they decided to 4-lane 98 instead of 30A. Would you have preferred they 4 laned 30 A instead? or perhaps you'd prefer an elevated freeway through 30A like through Detroit, Philadelphia etc. A case study in urban planning - yes.
Sorry dude, you're livingin the wrong place .. Slowing people down, with narrow streets, stop signs, limits, etc... tends to creates livable communities.
Maybe you should go and picket the godfather of New Urbanisn when he comes to town... let him know how important it is for you to get to your job 1 minute earlier - and that you don't have the extra minute to leave earlier, or take "U.S." highway 98.
It's nice to see someone excited about their cause, however misguided, but did you actually read my post? It says very clearly that we used 30A as a short cut before they 4 laned Hwy 98. At that time 98 was a parking lot from one end to the other during the summer, you could slip down 30A and even if it were only 35mph the entire way you would still have come out way ahead.
Beach Fanatic
It's nice to see someone excited about their cause, however misguided, but did you actually read my post? It says very clearly that we used 30A as a short cut before they 4 laned Hwy 98. At that time 98 was a parking lot from one end to the other during the summer, you could slip down 30A and even if it were only 35mph the entire way you would still have come out way ahead.
I did. You hate the resort feel of the area, that took off starting around 2000 and brought all the people, b/c you can't whisp down 30A now like you used to.... I get it. thanks for your viewpoint. Thanks for your honesty. You're after a speed limit cruise down 30A. I get it. I think its heading the other way, but maybe if a great depression really happens, you'll be able to wisk down 30A again only seeing tumbleweed.
Beach Fanatic
Since they are NOT lowering the speed limit on 30a to 35mph, what the hell are you babbling about here? This thread is like a train wreck, it derailed when it struck that dead horse twenty miles back... :roll:
Would you please stop chiming in with your lame attempts to shut down a legitimate discussion.
Beach Fanatic
Would you please stop chiming in with your lame attempts to shut down a legitimate discussion.
That was my first post on this thread, where exactly are my 'lame attempts' to shut it down? Your lucidity seems to be slipping. I will let you get back to your LSV flag waving then.
Beach Fanatic
That was my first post on this thread, where exactly are my 'lame attempts' to shut it down? Your lucidity seems to be slipping. I will let you get back to your LSV flag waving then.
so long, and congrats on the great first post on this thread. Judging by your list of friends, its not surprising you're coming down on their side of it..... grayt, good on you.... you're being a good soldier - now I would suggest you train your eyes on other threads that don't touch on Urban Planning, Community Design & Transportation Issues in South Walton - they're SUCH open and shut cases to you, Dougas the Emperor.
Too bad I had to be saucy here, b/c I sense you're probably a nice fella that likes to fit in with the crowd, whichever way they think that wind is blowing
Beach Fanatic
:roll: havin' fun, are we?
SWGB
I did. You hate the resort feel of the area, that took off starting around 2000 and brought all the people, b/c you can't whisp down 30A now like you used to.... I get it. thanks for your viewpoint. Thanks for your honesty. You're after a speed limit cruise down 30A. I get it. I think its heading the other way, but maybe if a great depression really happens, you'll be able to wisk down 30A again only seeing tumbleweed.
I said we used to use it as a short cut. You are ASSuming the rest and living up to that age old definition.
Perhaps it would be best if you saddled up your ridiculous plastic cart and rode off into the sunset with nr-light side-caring in a hover round.
SoWal Insider
What is LSV, some kinda' new crime show? Why is traffic on Peachtree only 20MPH? Aggervatin'!
SoWal Insider
Since they are NOT lowering the speed limit on 30a to 35mph, what the hell are you babbling about here? This thread is like a train wreck, it derailed when it struck that dead horse twenty miles back... :roll:
This is probably the most succinct commentary on this whole thread. Please let the damn dead horse die!
needs to get out more
You will be quoted and told what you think. It is the way of this thread. All serious discussion ended pages ago.
Beach Comber
The cyclists aka "bicyclists", need to stay on the BIKE PATH. That is what what millions of dollars were spent for... people to ride their bicycles, whether you consider yourself a "professional" or not. However, if you want to get run over by drivers (which will probably be a tourist staring at something on Scenic 30a), then have at it and ride on the road. No, I cannot stand seeing spandex clad "cyclists" hogging the road when there is a BIKE PATH three feet away... more than angry, it makes me nervous that they are eventually going to get hit b/c a lot of people on 30a are tourists and are not paying attention. I'm a local so I'm always cautious of cyclists, but the next person from Wisconsin may not be. I honestly think if you ride your bike on the road and not the bike path that you are asking for it... nobody's fault but your own if you get hit.... sorry just my opinion.
Beach Comber
And one more thing... before a cyclist comes on here and blasts me for saying the above, please realize that we know that you don't ride on the bike path while on your bike b/c you get annoyed at all the slow tourista bicyclists,,.. and that is exactly how the thousands of cars that get stuck behind you on 30a feel when you are riding on the road.... and trust me you hold up a lot more traffic than you get held up if you used the bike path like you should.
SWGB
The cyclists aka "bicyclists", need to stay on the BIKE PATH. That is what what millions of dollars were spent for... people to ride their bicycles, whether you consider yourself a "professional" or not. However, if you want to get run over by drivers (which will probably be a tourist staring at something on Scenic 30a), then have at it and ride on the road. No, I cannot stand seeing spandex clad "cyclists" hogging the road when there is a BIKE PATH three feet away... more than angry, it makes me nervous that they are eventually going to get hit b/c a lot of people on 30a are tourists and are not paying attention. I'm a local so I'm always cautious of cyclists, but the next person from Wisconsin may not be. I honestly think if you ride your bike on the road and not the bike path that you are asking for it... nobody's fault but your own if you get hit.... sorry just my opinion.
And one more thing... before a cyclist comes on here and blasts me for saying the above, please realize that we know that you don't ride on the bike path while on your bike b/c you get annoyed at all the slow tourista bicyclists,,.. and that is exactly how the thousands of cars that get stuck behind you on 30a feel when you are riding on the road.... and trust me you hold up a lot more traffic than you get held up if you used the bike path like you should.
This has nothing to do with cyclists. It's about LSV or Low Speed Vehicles. However robertsondavies will point out that you are somehow agreeing with us.
Beach Comber
This has nothing to do with cyclists. It's about LSV or Low Speed Vehicles. However robertsondavies will point out that you are somehow agreeing with us.
Well... in my opinion... a bicycle on 30a is a low speed vehicle... they are constantly holding up traffic and do not go the speed limit therefore i consider them an lsv.... and yes i am very much in agreement with 99% of the people on here about lowering the speed limit... it's stupid but not as stupid as the repaving being done that 30a did not need.
Banned
What is LS-V, some kinda' new crime show? Why is traffic on Peachtree only 20MPH? Aggervatin'!
They named some lame-ass slow moving vehicle after me.-LS
Banned
The cyclists aka "bicyclists", need to stay on the BIKE PATH. That is what what millions of dollars were spent for... people to ride their bicycles, whether you consider yourself a "professional" or not. However, if you want to get run over by drivers (which will probably be a tourist staring at something on Scenic 30a), then have at it and ride on the road. No, I cannot stand seeing spandex clad "cyclists" hogging the road when there is a BIKE PATH three feet away... more than angry, it makes me nervous that they are eventually going to get hit b/c a lot of people on 30a are tourists and are not paying attention. I'm a local so I'm always cautious of cyclists, but the next person from Wisconsin may not be. I honestly think if you ride your bike on the road and not the bike path that you are asking for it... nobody's fault but your own if you get hit.... sorry just my opinion.
In the name of Darwin keep the spandexers on 30a. Let natural selection do its job.
Beach Fanatic
Well... in my opinion... a bicycle on 30a is a low speed vehicle... they are constantly holding up traffic and do not go the speed limit therefore i consider them an lsv.... and yes i am very much in agreement with 99% of the people on here about lowering the speed limit... it's stupid but not as stupid as the repaving being done that 30a did not need.
Surfer Girl, you are absolutely correct in my view of your interpretation... cyclists on the road are ultra slow LSVs... who rarely pullover, as an LSV would, b/c those thin tires CANNOT go onto the soft shoulder.
We probably disagree as to what to do. I don't want to ban cyclists, and I want to give LSV's which are a lesser annoyance since they actually pull off and let traffic through, to legally have the run of 30A, instead of just the 85% of it that they currently have - legally, due to a couple tiny sections of 45MPH.
Checking your forum account
Please wait while we verify your forum account.