Public vs Private Beach

[seagrovegirl]

Re: Public Beach & Bay Accesses - list and map

exactly. people come to the emerald coast to, um, GO TO THE BEACH.

Here, here.............what a concept!!!! We need a locals only beach...like 27 miles of it!!

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Re: Public Beach & Bay Accesses - list and map

And you think that would cause a 'deputy sheriff' to unarrest someone?

Be sure to include a after a your next post with Bobby J to counter his ....(SoWal etiquette, I believe ).

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Re: Public Beach & Bay Accesses - list and map

If you feel that way, why do you continue to bring up the issue? You were the first to post something about it on this thread.

You're doing the SJ shuffle again. Here's my first post:

Will the TDC ever publish a comprehensive map showing which beaches are public vs. private (in addition to the accesses)?

On their website they finally acknowledged that there are private beaches last year. Wouldn't it be responsible to our 2008 tourists by showing that some of the public accesses are completely surrounded by private beach?

Let's not repeat the summer of 2007.

I'm not debating the private / public beach thing here. I'm suggesting that TDC should ALSO provide maps of the public beaches as well as the accesses.

Oh....didn't JustaLocal just share with all of us that Meadows was looking into the TDC providing that very information?

SJ, in addition you also said:

BMBV, I thought you have been saying that the Courts are the ones who will have to decide whether the public can use the privately deeded beach. Now you want the TDC to make that determination.

You are wrongfully implying that a determination has to be made. It has already been made via legally recorded property deeds but of course you deny this in your rhetoric. Assuming Justalocal's post is correct, then the TDC has already acknowledged this (unlike you). At a minimum this (as you know) was on the TDC's website:

Public vs. Private Beach
Frequently Asked Questions ​

We were enjoying the beach when we were asked to move because we were on private property. Isn?t the beach public? ​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The county maintains six regional beach accesses with parking and restrooms that are available to the public. Many of the county?s beaches are private due to the way some of the area?s properties were originally deeded and beachgoers who set up tents and chairs in these areas may be asked to move. [/FONT]


So you see, SJ, the TDC has already made a "determination" as you call it. They just need to inform the public as I've suggested.


Another comment you made:

Please show me an example of my post where I have encouraged tourists to pay for my ideology. If anything, I have warned people of the possible arrests for sitting quietly on the beach.

You are contradicting yourself. If you are warning people, then there must be a reason. If TDC acknowledges that there are private beaches, then there must be a reason. If you think TDC should not inform the public which beaches are private and which are public then you are in fact "encouraging tourists to pay for your ideology" by desiring that they stay uninformed. And I can see only one reason to want that.

And one more IMPORTANT thing.... Nobody has been arrested that was asked to leave a private beach and did so without argument or other resistance. Your imagery (sensationalism) of "possible arrests for sitting quietly on the beach" is total crap and you know it.

Why can't you simply acknowledge that it would be a good idea to also have a public beach map generated by TDC as well as the public access points?

In summary, I believe that was the essence of my first post as it followed with the title of this thread, "Public Beach & Bay Accesses - list and map", not that I wanted to re-debate the private vs. public beach issue.

 

[Smiling JOe]

The TDC hasn't made a determination as to whether the public may sit quietly on the beach. Doing so is not within their power. They are simply trying to avoid possible lawsuits. Even you have stated numerous times that the Court will have to decide each case on a case-by-case basis, so I'm not sure why you are now changing your mind.

I do acknowledge that deeds do exists for some of the sandy beach. I also note that full rights do not come with all property. Zoning, easements, customary use and prescriptive rights are some examples of a property owner not having full rights to their property. If you don't understand that simple and common part of real estate laws in Florida, I suggest you do some research. I am not an attorney, but I am familiar with the laws of the State of Florida. The public has been using the beaches in SoWal ever since their were people down here, which history shows that being some 4000-5000 years ago, long before Jesus roamed the Middle East. Only two years ago, has someone tried to defend the beaches as their property. That fits right into the Customary Use of the Florida Real Estate Law. Look it up.

BTW, no contradiction on my part. My warning is simply that people risk arrest or not having a convenient place to spend their time on the beach, and that has absolutely nothing to do with their rights to sit on the beach. Anyone can file a lawsuit or apparently have someone else arrested for criminal trespass, even without showing the Sheriff their boundary markers and current survey of the property, but that doesn't mean that they have full rights to their property, nor does it mean that the public doesn't have some rights to the property.

As for a map of private vs public beach, a map would only serve to show deeds for the beach, but that doesn't fully interpret rights of usage of that property. For example, my interior lot with a road being built across the depth of my property, without payment by the County, is one example of me not having full rights to my property. The deed shows that I own the property upon which the road and ROW sit, but that doesn't mean much about that portion of the road. In my particular case, Prescriptive Easement is the section of the law which is applicable. How you don't understand basic real estate law is beyond me. Have you actually looked up the laws and Court rulings and opinions, regarding Customary Use?

 

[JustaLocal]

Re: Public Beach & Bay Accesses - list and map

Oh....didn't JustaLocal just share with all of us that Meadows was looking into the TDC providing that very information?

So you see, SJ, the TDC has already made a "determination" as you call it. They just need to inform the public as I've suggested.

I disagree with the above. The TDC has not made a "determination."

I may have posted all this last Summer during the Public Beaches debate on SoWal, but I wanted to clear up my view.
I wrote the following to Com. Meadows last July after the TDC posted the FAQ on the County website:

"As a resident of South Walton I feel it very important to let you know my feelings on the County's new stand on "private beaches". I think it would have been prudent for the County to wait until the courts decide before taking a stand one way or the other. I feel confident that public access will extend at the very least to Mean High Water (MHW) and not only "wet sand" (which are very often not the same) . That aside, I am VERY disturbed about the following statement on County website under FAQ about private beaches.
"Most public beach accesses are nestled between private properties. Beachgoers should stay within the easement of the dune walkover to set up on the dry beach. Along Scenic 30A, beachgoers who wish have beach set ups outside of these areas must be on the wet sand." (bold mine)
The public beach access I use, Dune Allen, is not 'nestled between private properties'. The Gulf front properties East of the park do not extend seaward all the way to MHW. Since this is the access I use, it is the only one I've researched. But, I think the County would be wise not to err on the side of restricting public use of public beach by making the above generalization. It is misleading.
If Walton County is going to support the "private beach" idea, I think it has a duty to indicate on a map where the "private" portions actually are.
Thank you very much for allowing me to express my opinions on this matter.

She responded:
I will forward your comments to the TDC. We are working on a map showing public/private areas of the beach. we are working on the opinion but had to act in the meantime to an issue that is important to all of us.
Commissioner Cindy Meadows

Then on Aug. 1, I received this e-mail:
I received your e-mail from Commissioner Meadows. It is a tricky situation right now as there has not been a survey conducted to identify the mean high water line. The Walton County Sheriff's Department is enforcing the wet sand rule as it is their interpretation of the Florida Attorney General's opinion. As a TDC, we do not make or enforce the rules but simply serve as a communication vehicle. Our function is to market the destination, protect and maintain the area's beaches and provide leadership on tourism issues. Our FAQ sheet ensures visitors do not place themselves in a compromising situation. While we do make generalizations and err on the side of caution, it is because we'd rather have our visitors in an area that we know is public than have our visitors be harassed, asked to move or, worse, arrested. The feedback from our visitors has been very positive as they are most appreciative of us outlining the rules. They prefer to know where it is safe to set up instead of being asked to relocate later. The county is addressing this issue and we hope to have a clear understanding of where the public is allowed by the 2008 tourist season. In the meantime, we are directing visitors to our public beach accesses.
Tracy LouthainWalton County Tourist Development Council

 

[scooterbug44]

Re: Public Beach & Bay Accesses - list and map

You know what really puzzles me? Why would someone purchase a beach front home knowing good and well that people use this beach and then promptly begin to complain about these same people on the beach?

If I purchased my home and folks were playing out back, I think I would have made the connection that these folks always played there....

Who knows, but people constantly do this - they buy and then immediately want to change the status quo!

 

[JustaLocal]

Re: Public Beach & Bay Accesses - list and map

Who knows, but people constantly do this - they buy and then immediately want to change the status quo!

You are so right!

 

[elgordoboy]

Re: Public Beach & Bay Accesses - list and map

Be sure to include a after a your next post with Bobby J to counter his ....(SoWal etiquette, I believe ).

Are you knocking the smiley's? If so I have a couple I can put after posts addressed to you but I would need special dispensation to not get banned. If not then .

 

[Bobby J]

They just feel good to me.

 

[florida girl]

Went through some photos I had, found one of my late great aunt who is no longer living, taken in May of 1990 at Ed Walline Park. Interesting where the beach goers are.