Sarah Palin, Creationist???

[sunspotbaby]

Palin's daughter is pregnant....yep, they're creationists...

 

[Teresa]

Kitty--I appreciate your thoughts. I am puzzled by the "right wing Christian conservative" group. I do not understand how a "Christian" group does not consider "the least of these" and the charge that we have to "be stewards of the Earth". I was pleased to learn that one Christian group was speaking out for the environment, but they have not gotten much traction. And isn't it more important to care for people than it is to try and dictate personal decisions? I wonder how Gov Palin would feel if the government had mandated that she could not have her child? She deserves to be able to make that choice just as every other woman deserves the right to choose. I doubt that I would ever have been able to make a choice for an abortion--but, I would fight to the death to have that choice...and for every woman to have that choice.

How can sensible people let the far right ministers speak for them? or guide them in their choice of a candidate? How can a minister like Dr. Dobson actually have his people "pray for rain to spoil the Democratic convention outdoor speech?" Where is the love in that? Where was the love in the comment Pat Roberson made about Katrina being "God's punishment..."Don't these ministers have a higher calling than this?

This country has been better than this in the past. Our ancestors came to a wilderness to build a country where everyone would be treated as an individual with the freedom to choose how they live their lives. ..including how they choose to worship or not. It has not been an easy journey...we have made lots of mistakes, slavery being the more horrific but...

Men and women have given their lives...and are giving their lives today, to preserve our freedom and to bring freedom to others--sometimes whether they want it or not--how can we as individuals not honor the sacrifices of both our past and present by allowing equality to all our citizens, regardless of what religious belief they have or even if they have no religious belief.

This religious stuff is IMO responsible more than anything else for the polarization of the country...while Obama believes that "there is only one United States of America" and I believe will work to bring us together rather than dividing us...Senator McCain made a choice for his Vice President apparently to "rally the base of religious right supporters." I am disappointed in his decision; and I have been, if not an advocate, at least a supporter of him as a decent person..I just do not think he is the best person for the job.

There are so many qualified Republicans who would have made a good match for Senator McCain and, IMO added value to his ticket. The fact that he allowed the operatives of the right to persuade him, is very scary to me. If he will do this, then what else will he do to satisfy the extreme right?

Many say all of these is just politics...maybe it is, but the policies of our country are being formed by these politics...and, we the people will get the government we deserve. If we don't speak out to make a difference, those with their own agenda will do it for us. And, as you said, the religious right does not speak for me...that is not the Christianity I believe in.

We need to take our government back from the religious right IMO, and McCain could have done this had he made a different choice.

thank you GW for the best speech I've seen in a long time around here! your statements are very clear and speak to many of us.

 

[Matt J]

You made my point much more rationally than I did, and I appreciate it. As a group, the "right wing Christian conservatives" are skeery, but I know a lot of calm, collected Christians who do not act that way, think that way, vote that way, etc.

I apologize for allowing this to get my goat. It is my hope that in this close-knit community we will continue to regard (not judge) one another as individuals rather than some part of a group.

Perhaps mine got a little blurred and unclear as well. I was trying to explain why I'm no fan of the right wing conservative Christians that make the news a regular basis. I would never lump you in with that group, ever. Unfortunately the calm, collected Christians don't make the news and don't get much public credit for the many and good deeds that are part of their everyday life, despite the occassional shoe whacking. ;-)

 

[NoHall]

Kitty--I appreciate your thoughts. I am puzzled by the "right wing Christian conservative" group. I do not understand how a "Christian" group does not consider "the least of these" and the charge that we have to "be stewards of the Earth". I was pleased to learn that one Christian group was speaking out for the environment, but they have not gotten much traction. And isn't it more important to care for people than it is to try and dictate personal decisions? I wonder how Gov Palin would feel if the government had mandated that she could not have her child? She deserves to be able to make that choice just as every other woman deserves the right to choose. I doubt that I would ever have been able to make a choice for an abortion--but, I would fight to the death to have that choice...and for every woman to have that choice.

How can sensible people let the far right ministers speak for them? or guide them in their choice of a candidate? How can a minister like Dr. Dobson actually have his people "pray for rain to spoil the Democratic convention outdoor speech?" Where is the love in that? Where was the love in the comment Pat Roberson made about Katrina being "God's punishment..."Don't these ministers have a higher calling than this?

This is NOT the stance of many Christians in this country.

I fought HARD against this mindset when I was some little 20-year-old in a Baptist College. Clinton the First beat Bush the First, and some moron got up and prayed a prayer at convocation to the effect of "They beat us this time, Lord Jesus, but we'll get them in the next election!" If I believe in a God who can't win a stinkin' presidential election, I need to redefine God.

Perhaps mine got a little blurred and unclear as well. I was trying to explain why I'm no fan of the right wing conservative Christians that make the news a regular basis. I would never lump you in with that group, ever. Unfortunately the calm, collected Christians don't make the news and don't get much public credit for the many and good deeds that are part of their everyday life, despite the occassional shoe whacking. ;-)

I'm not a fan of that group, either. (And sometimes a good smack with a shoe is an act of charity! )

I just want it to be clear that despite 1) being born and raised in a Christian culture my entire life, 2) working in ministries for many years, and 3) having Christian friends who far outnumber my non-Christian friends, I do NOT condone this behavior. Among my Christian friends, the right-wing wackos are in the minority.

I tend to get a pile of private messages when these things come up (and I really, really wish that they never would come up again) from SoWallers. There are a whole bunch of regulars (not lurkers) on here who are Christians. Some of them are even Democrats! (*gasp!*)

Extremists should be labeled exactly that way--as extremists.

 

[Matt J]

This is NOT the stance of many Christians in this country.

I fought HARD against this mindset when I was some little 20-year-old in a Baptist College. Clinton the First beat Bush the First, and some moron got up and prayed a prayer at convocation to the effect of "They beat us this time, Lord Jesus, but we'll get them in the next election!" If I believe in a God who can't win a stinkin' presidential election, I need to redefine God.

My understanding is that he/she doesn't really care one way or the other.

I'm not a fan of that group, either. (And sometimes a good smack with a shoe is an act of charity! )

I just want it to be clear that despite 1) being born and raised in a Christian culture my entire life, 2) working in ministries for many years, and having Christian friends who far outnumber my non-Christian friends, I do NOT condone this behavior. Among my Christian friends, the right-wing wackos are in the minority.

I tend to get a pile of private messages when these things come up (and I really, really wish that they never would come up again) from SoWallers. There are a whole bunch of regulars (not lurkers) on here who are Christians. Some of them are even Democrats! (*gasp!*)

Extremists should be labeled exactly that way--as extremists.

Thank you, I think we are on the same page, but I'm still ducking the next time I see you. ;-)

 

[Chickpea]

The moderates in all religions should not be feared (whether they are christian, muslim, jewish, buddhist, hindu, etc...) - it is only the extremes that generally preach intolerance and are judgemental of others beliefs and way of life - and when this debate is packaged to try impose on the rest of us a way of life, a set of morals, etc.. this is what becomes very scary.

 

[NoHall]

My understanding is that he/she doesn't really care one way or the other.

I think s/he cares, but has slightly different priorities and perspective.

Thank you, I think we are on the same page, but I'm still ducking the next time I see you. ;-)

I still want my cocktail.

 

[Teresa]

This is NOT the stance of many Christians in this country.

I fought HARD against this mindset when I was some little 20-year-old in a Baptist College. Clinton the First beat Bush the First, and some moron got up and prayed a prayer at convocation to the effect of "They beat us this time, Lord Jesus, but we'll get them in the next election!" If I believe in a God who can't win a stinkin' presidential election, I need to redefine God.



I'm not a fan of that group, either. (And sometimes a good smack with a shoe is an act of charity! )

I just want it to be clear that despite 1) being born and raised in a Christian culture my entire life, 2) working in ministries for many years, and having Christian friends who far outnumber my non-Christian friends, I do NOT condone this behavior. Among my Christian friends, the right-wing wackos are in the minority.

I tend to get a pile of private messages when these things come up (and I really, really wish that they never would come up again) from SoWallers. There are a whole bunch of regulars (not lurkers) on here who are Christians. Some of them are even Democrats! (*gasp!*)

Extremists should be labeled exactly that way--as extremists.

nohall - GW was not speaking of you or all christians, but there is definitely a huge growing evangelical group out there with a political agenda from our local schools to the us gov. for some of us it is a legitimate concern.

I would guess most of us in this discussion are christians of one kind or another. but we are more than aware of a massive movement on behalf of one kind of christianity that we just do not identify with. never have, never will.

however, I must say that some of the conservative catholics I know and love are jumping on the extreme political christian right wing bandwagon because it suits them more and more, due to right to life and other religious based issues. most of these well-meaning christians with an agenda also support guns, death penalty, war and many issues that are quite contradictory with regard to their belief system, IMO.

I think its become a big subculture of so-called christians in this country. it is a very big concern for many of us.

 

[NoHall]

GW was not speaking of you or all christians...

I think she was pretty clear about who she was talking about, and careful to point out that these are the right-wing evangelicals. I didn't take her to mean that this was the stance of all Christians. (And she has received no hysterical PMs from me over it! )

I agree--there is a group of extremists with an obnoxious agenda. I'm not so sure it's necessarily growing, but it seems to be more and more vocal. Bleh!

p.s. When those vampire movies come out later this year, maybe it will distract them from politricks.

 

[NoHall]

however, I must say that some of the conservative catholics I know and love are jumping on the extreme political christian right wing bandwagon because it suits them more and more, due to right to life and other religious based issues. most of these well-meaning christians with an agenda also support guns, death penalty, war and many issues that are quite contradictory with regard to their belief system, IMO.

p.s. again: Maybe they never should have translated the Old Testament into English. Most people really just don't understand it, and I don't understand people who shoot doctors in defense of the right to life. God is love, boys and girls...God is love.