Schism in the Democratic Congress over the Second Amendment

[Bob]

yes, logic would tell me if millions are dying in darfur, any incremental change in gun laws here is inconsequential. it's not a big deal...it's just an annoyance that pops up every now and then.....like a hurricane...or an oil spill....or a jindal speech[/QUOTE

You just set the world record for red herrings!;-)

Just so I understand where you are coming from, do you wish to ban the sale/ownership of all guns, certain rifles or what?

what's a few million ak-47s lying around? not a problem. for the record, i grew up shooting competitively, i own several guns, and have experience with all manner of guns/ weaponry/ordnance thanks to uncle sam, and have no problem with any citizen owning guns if they can demonstrate minimal proficiency in gun safety. a handy weapon is good insurance for a bad situation, but assault rifles? come on now, it's too easy to grab militarized rifles at gun shows, pawn shops, gun stores. i admit they are fun to shoot, but i don't believe my right to own one is more important than the fallout from another episode like we had in alabama.

 

[30A Skunkape]

what's a few million ak-47s lying around? not a problem. for the record, i grew up shooting competitively, i own several guns, and have experience with all manner of guns/ weaponry/ordnance thanks to uncle sam, and have no problem with any citizen owning guns if they can demonstrate minimal proficiency in gun safety. a handy weapon is good insurance for a bad situation, but assault rifles? come on now, it's too easy to grab militarized rifles at gun shows, pawn shops, gun stores. i admit they are fun to shoot, but i don't believe my right to own one is more important than the fallout from another episode like we had in alabama.

According to the Dept of Justice, this isn't true, at least when inmates are interviewed regarding their transgressions with guns. The guns that are used in crimes, are by far and away, NOT assault rifles, nor are they purchased at gun shows, gun dealers or pawn shops. Gun crimes are committed with a firearm that is stolen or purchased on the street (probably stolen too) with something other than an 'assault rifle'.

The money that would be spent in an effort to enforce (yet more) gun laws would probably be better invested in juvenile intervention, anything from schools to psychiatric care, if a true reduction in gun violence is desired.

 

[Lynnie]

On gun ownership: a non-gun owner friend got home one night (in NoBuc/Sandy Springs area), and heard a noise, saw a strange movement and then peeked around the corner to see two big guys wearing all black - cat burglars! My friend stands back and holds his blackberry like a gun and says, "I HAVE A GUN!" The two cat burglars squealed like 15 year old cheerleaders, tripped over each other trying to get out of the house.....and, ran with their arms in the air.

My friend bought 15 guns the next day. All the same. So, he wouldn't have to deal with different AMMO!

I hope this isn't the case, but we will probably see more home invasions like this through this economy. Protect yourselves - if you want a gun, git one. If you use a baseball bat, keep it close to you! Just protect yourselves! ;-)

 

[poppy]

According to the Dept of Justice, this isn't true, at least when inmates are interviewed regarding their transgressions with guns. The guns that are used in crimes, are by far and away, NOT assault rifles, nor are they purchased at gun shows, gun dealers or pawn shops. Gun crimes are committed with a firearm that is stolen or purchased on the street (probably stolen too) with something other than an 'assault rifle'.

The money that would be spent in an effort to enforce (yet more) gun laws would probably be better invested in juvenile intervention, anything from schools to psychiatric care, if a true reduction in gun violence is desired.

How do you know they were not purchased at a gun show, gun dealer or pawn shop? The criminal may have stolen it or bought it on the street but the original purchase could have been at a gun show, gun dealer, or pawn shop. These weapons come from some source unless the gun manufacturers are having truck loads stolen from their factories without their knowledge or have a sales team in hoods across the country. Who would expect a thug to walk into a business and lay down hundreds if not thousands of dollars for a weapon when his only skill is thievery.

I agree the number one weapon of crime is the hand gun, an easily concealed weapon of death.

I get through life just fine without a bible or a gun but do not mind or feel offended if you possess one or both. I believe both are harmless when used correctly and in moderation.

 

[Bob]

According to the Dept of Justice, this isn't true, at least when inmates are interviewed regarding their transgressions with guns. The guns that are used in crimes, are by far and away, NOT assault rifles, nor are they purchased at gun shows, gun dealers or pawn shops. Gun crimes are committed with a firearm that is stolen or purchased on the street (probably stolen too) with something other than an 'assault rifle'.

The money that would be spent in an effort to enforce (yet more) gun laws would probably be better invested in juvenile intervention, anything from schools to psychiatric care, if a true reduction in gun violence is desired.

you are deflecting and defending the indefensible....i would lay money alabama sausage boy bought his sks and bushmaster at one of the three venues i listed

 

[Minnie]

Orginially posted by=sowalgayboi;
You're missing my point. It's easy to sit back and say that restrictive gun laws aren't needed when you are currently unaffected by violent gun crimes. I'm sure if you were shot and left in a wheel chair you might change your mind. Of course you can go ahead and post your response that you would still be a proud defender of the 2nd amendment with a holster on your wheel chair, but I'm still doubtful that response would hold true if it actually happened.

True, but that can be said about any law that affects personal behavior. I seriously doubt many are going to completely give up drinking until they are affected by a DUI tragedy.

Drinking does not cause all DUI tragedies anymore than responsible gun ownership causes all gun related tragedies. It is more about personal responsiblity than restrictions, and sadly very few criminals care about personal responsibility.

And in reference to the Alabama incident, I know someone personally affected, and yes they are responsible gun owners and probably at that time, wish they had been traveling with thiers. They were on their way home to the Oxford, Memphis area from Destin when the guy shot at them at a traffic light in Alabama.

The reason most responsible gun owners are against gun bans is that once a ban against specific guns, such as AK47s is allowed, and truly most gun owners do not have a problem with tougher laws for purchasing, registering and even limiting assault weapons, is that the organizations that want to ban high power assault weapons will be for banning all guns after that.

Truly in rural areas especially poverty areas many depend on hunting, to supply thier families with meat. Not every person owning a gun is a maniac intent on mass destruction. Very few are.

As Skunky has stated very well, the problem is with the criminal not the weapon.

As to where most guns used in crimes are purchased actually Bob and Poppy are both correct. Most weapons used in a situation like the Alabama one are purchased at mass gun shows, or pawn shops, the every day criminal that robs a liquour store, stole his or got it off the street. And yes this is based on fact, my cousin is an ATF agent.

off topic: why does the Quote feature get so screwed up in this forum, where it is probably used more and has the potential to really get things heated because it malfunctions.

 

[30A Skunkape]

you are deflecting and defending the indefensible....i would lay money alabama sausage boy bought his sks and bushmaster at one of the three venues i listed

I am not defending anything, simply asking you to realize that all the laws in the world will never prevent insane people from acting on their disorganized thoughts. Advocating a ban on assault rifles is tilting at windmills.

 

[poppy]

I am not defending anything, simply asking you to realize that all the laws in the world will never prevent insane people from acting on their disorganized thoughts. Advocating a ban on assault rifles is tilting at windmills.

Using this logic why ban any weapon be it an assault rifle, 50 caliber machine gun, rocket launcher, 105 Howitzer, cruise missiles, tanks, WMD's, etc.? Wouldn't banning weapons of any type be leading down that slippery slope of a ban on all weapons the NRA seems so afraid of? If we are going to take it to the extreme let's open the arms race to all citizens. So what if some people are mentally unstable, why deny others the pleasure of having the ability to vaporize an entire city. There is a whole new industry here for Detroit, personal assualt vehicles in every driveway.

 

[traderx]

Let's say we ban assault weapons. Let's define assault weapons narrowly as military style weapons capable of automatic fire such as a AK-47 and M16.

How would you go about banning these weapons? For instance, let's say that a law-abiding citizen owns an AK-47. Would he be required to surrender the AK to the government? Would he be penalized/prosecuted for owning it? Would he be paid in exchange for turning it in?

Now, how would you persuade non law-abiding citizens to turn in their AK's?

Or would the ban apply soley to future acquisitions of such assault weapons?

 

[Bob]

I am not defending anything, simply asking you to realize that all the laws in the world will never prevent insane people from acting on their disorganized thoughts. Advocating a ban on assault rifles is tilting at windmills.

alan greenspan needs you monday morning