From John R..... excellent post beachvagrant. thanks for taking the time to post your view with a quite level head.
- i too am concerned about the take. done legally or not, any engineering being done is bound to affect the balance of things that have been happening long before we got here. imo, the seawalls are just compounding the issue.
One cannot dispute this in its most elemental form.
- i am sure many walls poorly constructed will not survive, and will end up being strewn along the coast(it would be great if they were id'd to be able to locate their origin) for taxpayer pickup. of the others that will survive, what makes me nervous is what impact they'll have on surrounding land.
No disagreement here. But perhaps you're hyperbolizing the cost of clean up as compared to everything else. Believe it or not, we're all concerned about the long term effects of the retaining walls. But as I've said before, more or less, I'm much more concerned with the short term effects of the next Hurricane Dennis.
- with regards to future generations. who knows? if you sewall is constructed as well as you say it is, and your house as well as you say it isn't, maybe the only thing left standing someday will be your wall.
I have truthfully suggested this scenario to several people. shelly's excerpt regarding the corps regarding the cyclic nature of give and take, seems to be proven by history, to be true.
Can't argue that either. it may not be as quick as a sewall, but it apparently works just fine.
unless you're a gulf front property owner ![Big Grin :D :D](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
we as humans are too proud to worry about what we're leaving as a legacy.
Now you're showing just emotion. PIease don't include ME in your WE HUMANS.
- regarding the near vertical bluff. at least it has the ability to repair itself(re. shelly's post), i'm not sure how the sewall will assist in natural dune rebuilding, short of what will become natural; homeowners backfilling after each hurricane season. can we sit on your sand at lowtide? ;-)
Again the point is if we're going to experience an "abnormally high number of hurricanes" for the next few years, the vertical bluff will not have a chance to "repair itself". Vertical bluffs are more susceptable to severe erosion than rolling dunes. At this rate, The retaining wall "battle" (just an issue) will be handed to those north of 30A in just a few years (assuming 20 feet loss per hurricane).
- regarding wall 'entitlement'. aren't all gf owners starting with the same set of factors? this is the confusing part for me. are some more entitled than others due to certain things? i'm sure many are hampered by money, but all are facing erosion issues, no? is it just those who followed the rules the ones who are entitled?
As stated in my previous post, those strutures built on slabs (typically pre-1985) that are in "imminent" danger due to erosion are entitled to install retaining walls. There are other exceptions such as if you have a new home and your neighbors on each side have valid retaining walls, then you can close the gap. PLEASE take a look at http://www.dep.state.fl.us/beaches/publications/pdf/62b-33.pdf . You will find all the answers here. It is fairly clear.
- the dark sand issue. what a cluster. this argument will rage for years. 'shoring up foundations' apparently is in the eye of the interpreter. will it bleach itself? will it cloud the white forever? these people bought here when it was white, they realize what makes this place magical, and yet they are driven by their pocketbooks. this, for me, is where future generations will be paying for the selfishness of a few. if they have no concience about it now, they won't in the future either. the county yayo's share the resulting blame.
The dark sand issue is ANOTHER issue and addressed by the county. The county originally screwed up and paid to have a lot of the dark sand hauled off the beach before they raised the "color requirement by a notch". The sand color issue is not an issue regarding retaining walls. People without walls can also bring in sand. So you see it's not just retaining wall owners. Let's leave the sand color out of this discussion. The title of this thread is "Seawalls". And my part of this thread has to do with "our" retaining walls in general.
- reagrding wasting of money on sand. again we're too proud. the person who built further away from the shoreline probably didn't have that expense. purely conjecture here.
This comment is entirely too vague for a response.
- isn't the deadline for the dep permits 4/1? then we'll see who followed the rules and who didn't. and, didn't county already state they won't be leading the charge with this(i'm fuzzy here)? this will be playing out longer than next hurricane season, i'm sure.
With this comment, it's apparent you have no handle on the DEP permitting procedure. Deadline for permits is 60 days after completion. Everyone must be off the beach by May 1st so theortically the LATEST any permit can submitted is July 1st. County provides preliminary approval. It then goes DEP and FWL. Then it comes back to the county for final approval. The county is a non-issue for the most part as long as your retaining wall doesn't cross boundaries or violate other county rules. DEP and FWL call the shots.
- i agree with you, all this will be played out within the next 6 months by the upcoming hurricane season, which i fear will be as active as last year's was. either way, there will be one group who will be able to say i told you so.
Let me guess...You're hoping it's you. and, the county will be forced into action, and stop sitting on their hands. i for one would welcome some state and federal intervention here. at least the law would be made clear.
The law is already clear. Perhaps you're referring to enforcement.
thanks again for your level headed response to the rants. we just have a different opinion.
I don't dispute we're in a "predicament" with everything that''s happened. Again I just don't want people to assume from some of the posts, that all beach front property owners are irresponsible and don't care about our beautiful beach. I believe most of us are doing the best with situation as it is.
Oh yea, thank you!.....and please don't take any response personally as you are not the first to express some of the views that you did.
jr