Seawalls

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Shelly,

As I was looking at more of the pictures you referred to, I found http://www.pbase.com/kennywilder/image/55240052

This house is the one you see in the far background of the one you referred to. It appears to be standing perfectly straight. Bottom line, a properly designed home CAN withstand undermining even at this low elevation.

I just hope that "we are not put through the test".

 

[TooFarTampa]

I did misspeak a bit above. I don't really believe you should pay to fix an undermined neighbor's house, especially if you are following the rule of law, but I agree that all of ecopal's concerns are valid, as to what will or may happen during the next major storm. Seawalls/retaining walls are very likely to affect neighboring structures without them in a negative way, based on all the evidence, though I guess in your case everyone around you is armored this may not apply to you specifically.

I'm not an argumentative person. I'm just lamenting. And by the way, in "eminent domain," gulf front owners would not have a choice. It's defined as "expropriation of private property without the owner's consent" in return for "just compensation." As ecopal says it is risky to own gulf front. We have all seen it in the past couple of years. To protect the entire area some people just might have to lose their property, again on an as-needed basis.

 

[aquaticbiology]

Shelly,

As I was looking at more of the pictures you referred to, I found http://www.pbase.com/kennywilder/image/55240052

This house is the one you see in the far background of the one you referred to. It appears to be standing perfectly straight. Bottom line, a properly designed home CAN withstand undermining even at this low elevation.

I just hope that "we are not put through the test".

sitting here on the boat (on the tmobile data card and it is working great with 3 bars! - left at 1 am - "got ready couldn't wait any longer screw it lets go" - and had a waffle instead of an omelet ), positioned behind the island in the 'snake', just waiting for the fish to come by, looking at the beautiful canal and bayside, it almost seems like you folks are talking about something on another planet

when we put the boat in this morning, and all the way down here, nature has healed itself except for a fallen tree or so that is still visible

the only things that haven't healed over are the human piles of crap that still show the entropy that comes from age and time

It is so beautiful down here, why would you want to ruin it in the first place by building a blooming house on it - I vote the feds make the whole coast (everything south of the southernmost main road) a greenway-type park then raze, landscape and replant - it would be so beautiful, but i guess its too late, the brown sand is already there, and in a year or two the beach will be more than likely be gone or littered so badly with debris that you can't even see what's left of it

It just makes me so sad - enough of this crap, I say all the private TDC's should sue the county for letting people build gulfwise of the main road in the first place, make it a greenway and boot 'em all out for 10 cents on the dollar

what? "Bottom line, a properly designed home CAN withstand undermining even at this low elevation."

wait a minute! ez, is that you? your 'annyoance factor' is rising beyong mine! (didn't think that was possible)

I'm turning this thing off before I throw it in the water

mmmmm....salty water

tiny little waves lapping the side of the boat

the other half snoring very quietly below

a perfect mai-tai with fresh pineapple

a fine day even if it does rain

I just don't care anymore

screw your retaining wall, it isn't even a seawall in the first placeprobably backfilled it with brown sand and broken septic tanks

 

[SoWalSally]

Walton Sun:

The Walton County Board of County Commissioners voted to move forward with a habitat conservation plan grant application.
The grant would help in obtaining necessary incidental take permits for 241 property seawall applicants.
Following Hurricane Dennis, which made landfall July 10, 2005, the Walton Board of County Commissioners was authorized through Department of Environmental Protection to approve temporary armoring. Federal law required there be permits for the incidental taking of wildlife habitat caused by the structures.
Before an incidental take permit is issued, a HCP must accompany the request.
Homeowners have three options, which include waiting for the federal government to ?take some action,? applying for individual take permits or having the county and homeowners work together, County Attorney David Hallman said.
The county is exploring the option of creating a unified incidental take permit application.
Environmental consult- ing firm Ecological Associates estimated it would cost approximately $250,000 to prepare a combined HCP for Walton County residents and may take a number of years.
However, the county and citizens have not decided how they want to proceed with permit application.
Since the county can facilitate the grant money, commissioners decided to move forward with the grant application. The deadline is April 1.
?I hate to see this deadline pass and there?s not opportunity for assistance,? Commissioner Larry Jones said.
Some homeowners have expressed increasing frustration with the hurdles involved in the process of securing their homes.
?I don?t understand. There?s nothing left on our beach that looks like a living creature, except humans,? homeowner Vera Streiff said, who spent more than $100,000 restoring her home following Dennis. ?All we want is to follow the rules and they keep coming up with another bureaucratic demand.?
Attorney Gary Shipman, who represents some beachfront property owners, believes there should be more investigation into other options, including the county applying for a permit that would cover the entire shoreline. As it stands, the county is only looking to permit existing armoring structures.
?I think there should be more discussion on why they aren?t discussing a blanket plan,? he said.
The county will continue to discuss options with homeowners.
?I do think there is an opportunity for everyone to come together,? Hallman said. ?We can satisfy environmentalist groups and homeowners and it in a way that isn?t unfair to the taxpayer.?
Lorna Patrick, a wild life biologist with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife, said the county is moving in a positive direction.
?So far, so good. Things seem real positive right now,? she said.
Hallman said at this point anyone who constructed seawalls should have some type of legal representation.
?If you haven?t talked to a lawyer yet, I?d be real nervous,? he said.

 

[Smiling JOe]

Smiling Joe:

I have indeed read many of your posts. Are you paid a commission per post by Kurt?

From your previous post "....having ID labels on each piece of walkovers and seawall so that when they are destroyed"

After Hurricane Dennis and Ivan, the majority of the debris that I saw accumulated at the "usual" locations were decks and walkovers. To tag every walkover would be a waste since the majority of walkovers were wiped out anyway. Do you really think it cost that much to clean up this debris relative to all the other losses that are typically associated with a hurricane? Don't forget that most of the county walkovers were also destroyed... not to mention some of the "public" facilities, especially near Miramar. All these required clean-up.

Here's a suggestion to the clean-up expense (isn't constructive dialog what this is all about?)....Why not include a $500 "recovery" fee for every walkover permit. Walkovers, by nature of their construction, are dispensible. I think that would take care of your concerns relative to walkovers.

I do not disagree with your assessment of the walkovers and storm debris -- for those same reasons, I have changed my opinion on charging for debris removal of walkovers (BTW,it is my understanding that the TDC pays for this clean up of the beaches, and that $$$ comes from bed tax), and I think you add a great suggestion of a recovery fee of some sort for things such as walkovers. Can you imagine the red tape involved in sorting through piles of debris like I saw at Oyster Lake last year to try to identify and take an accounting of the debris? That alone would cost more than it is worth.

Yes, Kurt pays me $100 per post, but he is way behind on his payments - close to $1 Million . Actually, he pays me in all the free SoWal.com stickers that I can put on my car, and he says that you, too, can be paid to post. :funn:

 

[Smiling JOe]

Oh yea, guess who built the majority of the wood walls?

Ooooh, I know, I know! The same County Commissioner who dumped all of the illegal sand on the beach, then had the County pay him to hall some of the illegal sand off the beach. He happens to be the same Commissioner who has the the name of fish eggs. RO.

Just Vote NO RO!

 

[Smiling JOe]

To SJ:

Seawalls do not equate with peoples homes. People need to live in a house somewhere. It is a necessary impact on the environment. Peoples homes can be in the way of mother nature anywhere whether it is by a tornado, earthquake, forest fire etc.

In contrast a seawall is a deleterious and unnecessary intrusion of the beach ecology. Therefore the debris of seawalls is an additional negative consequence of their inappropriate installation and thus deserves a more severe level of scrutiny than debris from someone's home.

I do understand that people need to live in a house, but it is a choice that I make to live close enough to the beaches, that my house may be destroyed by these strong storms. Do you disagree? I mean, couldn't I decide to live in Defuniak Springs where the chances of my house surviving a Cat 4 storm would be much better? We all make choices in life, and we must learn to suffer the consequences of making bad choices. There are no wrong choices in life, only choices. The good or bad rests only in the minds of the beholder. ;-) I think you are speaking with an angry and frustrated tone. Remember to breathe.

I understand your position, there is no need to repeat it again, and again, and again, like Shelly often does with Real Estate. We simply have a difference of opinion on a minor thing as labeling each piece of debris.

 

[Smiling JOe]

Shelly,

These are indeed scary pictures. Was this house weakened with elevated waves hitting the structure directly? I would estimate the home in the picture is sitting only about 16 feet above sea level. It is very easy to imagine a 15 foot storm surge with waves riding on top of that just battering the hell of the house. On the other hand, the other 3 adjacent homes in the background appear to be still standing on their pilings. Keep in mind that Navarre Beach is also a barrier island that truly shifts about over time.

Keep in mind that SoWal is also a barrier island due to the Intercoastal being cut through on the north side. It just has spots of higher elevations than most barrier islands.

 

[Smiling JOe]

I'm not an argumentative person. I'm just lamenting. And by the way, in "eminent domain," gulf front owners would not have a choice. It's defined as "expropriation of private property without the owner's consent" in return for "just compensation." As ecopal says it is risky to own gulf front. We have all seen it in the past couple of years. To protect the entire area some people just might have to lose their property, again on an as-needed basis.

Well, if the gov't is going to take the land, they better do it quickly while the prices are at the..., how much was the discount Shelly, 40%? :funn:

 

[TooFarTampa]

Well, if the gov't is going to take the land, they better do it quickly while the prices are at the..., how much was the discount Shelly, 40%? :funn: