Seawalls

[pmd8]

"I will say this AGAIN... it IS my right to construct the retaining wall on my land to protect my structure with my money as permitted by DEP and OUR government. It's that simple." BMBV

Can I surmise from this statement you would do something that is harmful just because it's legal?

When our bayfront home was built in 1900, I'm guessing there were no federal or local agencies telling people where they could build. There was no federal flood insurance to bail them out. Instead people used common sense and built two or three hundred feet from the water and at the highest elevation they could find.

They'll have to pry my seawall from my cold, dead hands.

 

[pmd8]

I'll just assume you're an attorney and the answer is yes.

 

[SHELLY]

Look, I never said EChoEChoPal's concerns were invalid. I never said that owning gulf front was not risky. I never said that retaining walls would not affect unprotected neighboring strutures in a negative way.

I will say this AGAIN... it IS my right to construct the retaining wall on my land to protect my structure with my money as permitted by DEP and OUR government. It's that simple.

Best Regards.

Ya know BMBV, you are absolutely correct.

It's been my contention for quite some time (and more so over the last couple years) that all this over development, and the resulting RE money grab, pretty much ruined the area and the beaches anyway.

There was a time not so long ago when I was quite gung-ho about preserving the area's turtle habitat; taking up the cause against over-development and off-shore drilling; and walking the beaches with trash bag in hand picking up litter. The turtles are pretty much history (a couple have been killed during the beach renourishment activities out west); I still pick up litter, but there is SO MUCH MORE now; and most disturbing to me--I couldn't give a rat's rectum if they drilled for oil 20-feet offshore from Seaside.

So go ahead and build as many seawalls, condos and shopping centers as the law allows and why not throw in drilling for oil too.

When it's all said and done, I think once the walls are built and the sand is pumped in and looks as close to "normal" as possible (if Mother Nature is so kind), the owners won't be able to slap "For Sale" signs on those gulffront properties fast enough.

 

[Amp22]

Ya know BMBV, you are absolutely correct.

It's been my contention for quite some time (and more so over the last couple years) that all this over development, and the resulting RE money grab, pretty much ruined the area and the beaches anyway.

There was a time not so long ago when I was quite gung-ho about preserving the area's turtle habitat; taking up the cause against over-development and off-shore drilling; and walking the beaches with trash bag in hand picking up litter. The turtles are pretty much history (a couple have been killed during the beach renourishment activities out west); I still pick up litter, but there is SO MUCH MORE now; and most disturbing to me--I couldn't give a rat's rectum if they drilled for oil 20-feet offshore from Seaside.

So go ahead and build as many seawalls, condos and shopping centers as the law allows and why not throw in drilling for oil too.

When it's all said and done, I think once the walls are built and the sand is pumped in and looks as close to "normal" as possible (if Mother Nature is so kind), the owners won't be able to slap "For Sale" signs on those gulffront properties fast enough.

Shelly I didn't realize you used to have a heart. Thanks for still picking up some trash - you're right it is hard to keep up. I am sorry that you have given up and are so bitter. Believe it or not I am a realist, but from a perspective of yin and yang I am not so bitter, but also I will not stand in front of the tank.

I think I understand a little better why you hate so deeply those that would profit, including the seawall builders who will say or do anything to justify their actions in a vain attempt to scrub their consciences.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

There were others that collapsed after Ivan (yes they were built after 1985) and more after Dennis. That one "survived" both and collapsed later. Here's one they believe will be next: Post 1985 Home on Pilings

What kind of damage do you think a Cat 3-4 would do to our area if it wasn't 60 - 250 miles away? We've only been "kissed" by Opal and the others that followed.

I walked Navarre beach right after Hurricane Ivan and saw rebar twisted like spaghetti and pilings snapped like twigs. Those who believe there are products that can hold up to the fury of Mother Nature will be proven wrong. If she can't knock it down (doubtful)...she'll just take her beach and go elsewhere.

I'm a little confused as to what you and I are discussing - honestly....

Are you questioning (in general) whether a home built after 1985 will collapse if subjected to just erosion (which I think started our little dialog)?

OR are you questioning whether a home built after 1985 will collapse if subjected to erosion and storm surge and wave action as I suspect happened in Navarre?

OR are you questioning whether a home built after 1985 will collapse if subjected to erosion and storm surge and wave action AND cat 4 winds?

Let's summarize our little dialog:
1. ECHOECHO asked if I was going to pay for my neighbor's house if it were damaged due to increased erosion (again EROSION) caused by my retaining wall.
2. I responded by saying a house that was built after 1985 is built on pilings and "supposedly" is designed to survive erosion (again EROSION). I sight examples of homes that show this.
3. Then you showed some interesting and scary pictures of Navarre beach of collapsed houses built after 1985.
4. I then qualified those pictures by saying that the elevation at Navarre Beach is SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER than Blue Mountain Beach and that perhaps the house could have been subjected to storm surge and wave action as opposed to just erosion alone.
5. Then you say...
"There were others that collapsed after Ivan (yes they were built after 1985) and more after Dennis. What kind of damage do you think a Cat 3-4 would do to our area if it wasn't 60 - 250 miles away? We've only been "kissed" by Opal and the others that followed.

I walked Navarre beach right after Hurricane Ivan and saw rebar twisted like spaghetti and pilings snapped like twigs. Those who believe there are products that can hold up to the fury of Mother Nature will be proven wrong. If she can't knock it down (doubtful)...she'll just take her beach and go elsewhere."

Now, what does the above have to do with item # 2 listed above?

I don't deny the "fury of Mother Nature". I don't deny that Navarre got their teeth kicked out. I don't deny ANY of your statements made above.

What I sense from your post, is that maybe you believe our retaining wall will not survive a Cat 3 or 4 since retaining walls are still the subject of this thread.
Is this correct?

To answer your question, retaining wall or not, my home will be greatly damaged by a direct category 3 and probably totally destroyed by a category 4 hurricane. Either way, our wall, but NOT all walls will still be standing (in my very humble opinion...yes humble).

Bottom line, I will not lose my home to a puny category 2 hurricane now that we have a retaining wall. A cat 2 hurricane in our area will cause significantly more destruction because of continued erosion of our bluff than it would if it hit Navarre Beach where few, if any, homes are built on slab. MANY homes in our 20 mile stretch are built on slab because of our high elevation. There in lies the blessing (elevation) and curse (slab construction).

I respect mother nature... I really do. That's why OUR wall is over engineered by at least 50% worse case hydrostatic loads.

A lesson for retaining wall neophtyes... the walls that failed did so NOT because of battering waves or high winds or the east-west current. They failed because of the tremendous loads behind the wall that exist when the sand behind the wall becomes soaked and the sand in front is removed (no support from the front side). If the anchoring system is not designed properly to handle this worse case load, the wall doesn't stand a chance regardless of material used. I took several photos of walls that failed and documented the failed anchoring systems.

Shelly, I'm growing a bit weary of all this as I've tried to "educate" the naysayers about retaining walls. I promise you that I have been much closer to this situation than many others (as if you couldn't tell )

But like religion and abortion, no one seems to win in debating the retaining wall issue, ESPECIALLY between gulf front owners and non-gulf front owners...plain and simple.

So here's "praying" ;-) for a reprieve from hurricanes this year and many more.

Does anyone have a problem with that?

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

"I will say this AGAIN... it IS my right to construct the retaining wall on my land to protect my structure with my money as permitted by DEP and OUR government. It's that simple." BMBV

Can I surmise from this statement you would do something that is harmful just because it's legal?

When our bayfront home was built in 1900, I'm guessing there were no federal or local agencies telling people where they could build. There was no federal flood insurance to bail them out. Instead people used common sense and built two or three hundred feet from the water and at the highest elevation they could find.

They'll have to pry my seawall from my cold, dead hands.

Yes, I will do everything I can that is harmful as long as it's legal....or is it...I will do everything that's not harmful that's illegal. I do understand your point but in the words I've used before..."You're reaching here." Not even a good try.

Fiduciary responsibility dictates that I must protect my home. What I do know is that it is legal to install retaining wall. What I don't know is how harmful the wall will be. If it is harmful, then I will be one of the first to suffer. Some of you can take comfort in that.

Regarding your bayfront home.... good for you.

BTW, I own a bay front lot that I will begin construction this year. I plan to build over the water and put up a 30 foot retaining wall. Are you my neighbor over there? Don't tell me if you are. I'd rather stay friends!!

Oh yea, no barage of posts saying "oooohhh so you're building the wall then skipping town to the bay" kind of stuff.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

I'll just assume you're an attorney and the answer is yes.

Now you're really pissing me off!!! :funn:

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Ya know BMBV, you are absolutely correct.

It's been my contention for quite some time (and more so over the last couple years) that all this over development, and the resulting RE money grab, pretty much ruined the area and the beaches anyway.

There was a time not so long ago when I was quite gung-ho about preserving the area's turtle habitat; taking up the cause against over-development and off-shore drilling; and walking the beaches with trash bag in hand picking up litter. The turtles are pretty much history (a couple have been killed during the beach renourishment activities out west); I still pick up litter, but there is SO MUCH MORE now; and most disturbing to me--I couldn't give a rat's rectum if they drilled for oil 20-feet offshore from Seaside.

So go ahead and build as many seawalls, condos and shopping centers as the law allows and why not throw in drilling for oil too.

When it's all said and done, I think once the walls are built and the sand is pumped in and looks as close to "normal" as possible (if Mother Nature is so kind), the owners won't be able to slap "For Sale" signs on those gulffront properties fast enough.

When I responded to your previous post, I didn't realize you posted the above. Shelly, Zoloft works really well. Something wound you up and let you go. You are all over the place.

I thought we had a reasonable dialog going.

BUT.....It is painfully obvious that you are NOW personally using ME as punching bag for ALL the SINS in this world of ours. Sorry you see me as the root of all evil.

 

[Miss Kitty]

Okay, don't bite....I have a layman's question and I really am trying to uinderstand. I have seen Galveston over the years (raised in Houston). It was my understanding that some GF property owners had "lost" their land to Mother Nature. How did that play out as far as E. Domain (couldn't abbreviate that one!).

Also, please explain who decides where to build on the dune and what agency should review plans and oversee where these homes/condos are built. I'm wanting to understand if everyone with GF property had the same set of rules and if some ignored them in order to enhance the view from their houses. I also am coming to the understanding that GF owners "own" the dunes and the property to the "high water mark". As has been stated before, I know there was panic to save houses, but still can't understand that almost a year later there is not a "standard" fix to this problem.

I have no idea what I would be doing in this situation. That said, these experiences have certainly changed my "dream" of ever owning/building gulf front. I guess I can say thanks...saved me a bunch of money!

 

[Amp22]

Vagrant - there is a winner in the seawall debate and it is nature. If you think you can build something that nature can't destroy then you have already lost.