Seawalls

[ecopal]

BMBVagrant says: ? Make up your freakin' mind...
The walls will fail and cause debris.
The walls will survive and cause my neighbors home to fall in.
Which is it ?? ?

to BMBvagrant: All of the above

BMBVagrant says: ?Perhaps you should change your handle to ECHO pal. Your repetitive crap is starting to annoy me. Guess what?? You've have succeeded in the art of ANNOYANCE PUNISHMENT for a gulf front property owner who is simply trying to protect his property by the rules and laws granted to us by the GREAT STATE OF FLORIDA !! Sleep well tonight, young soldier.?

Dear BMBVagrant: If I am being repetitive it is because it is obvious from your responses that you still don?t get it. I suggest you reread all my posts as a remedial exercise. Frankly I don?t think your problem is cognitive but an emotional denial of reality.

I find your responses inappropriately arrogant, angry and condescending. Also, your self righteousness is nauseating.

How one responds to criticism is a good test of character. It quickly unveiled yours.

In addition, just because something is ?allowed? doesn?t make it right. You have to use some personal judgment and take responsibility for it and and be prepared to suffer the consequences. It is inconsistent to condemn the government in one instance and then in the next use them as an excuse for your actions.

*

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

sitting here on the boat (on the tmobile data card and it is working great with 3 bars! - left at 1 am - "got ready couldn't wait any longer screw it lets go" - and had a waffle instead of an omelet ), positioned behind the island in the 'snake', just waiting for the fish to come by, looking at the beautiful canal and bayside, it almost seems like you folks are talking about something on another planet

when we put the boat in this morning, and all the way down here, nature has healed itself except for a fallen tree or so that is still visible

the only things that haven't healed over are the human piles of crap that still show the entropy that comes from age and time

It is so beautiful down here, why would you want to ruin it in the first place by building a blooming house on it - I vote the feds make the whole coast (everything south of the southernmost main road) a greenway-type park then raze, landscape and replant - it would be so beautiful, but i guess its too late, the brown sand is already there, and in a year or two the beach will be more than likely be gone or littered so badly with debris that you can't even see what's left of it

It just makes me so sad - enough of this crap, I say all the private TDC's should sue the county for letting people build gulfwise of the main road in the first place, make it a greenway and boot 'em all out for 10 cents on the dollar

what? "Bottom line, a properly designed home CAN withstand undermining even at this low elevation."

wait a minute! ez, is that you? your 'annyoance factor' is rising beyong mine! (didn't think that was possible)

I'm turning this thing off before I throw it in the water

mmmmm....salty water

tiny little waves lapping the side of the boat

the other half snoring very quietly below

a perfect mai-tai with fresh pineapple

a fine day even if it does rain

I just don't care anymore

screw your retaining wall, it isn't even a seawall in the first placeprobably backfilled it with brown sand and broken septic tanks

I like you.

You paint a perfect picture of your day today. I too love boating, fishing, looking at beautiful surroundings, beer (not mai-tai's), etc.

However, your "perfect mai-tai's with fresh pineapple" and the sun have found their target. You are obviously pissed and delirious.

What part of my quote "Bottom line, a properly designed home CAN withstand undermining even at this low elevation." is not true as it relates to the context of the post? If you THINK that I'm implying else other than the logical observation that was in the discussion at the time, you're ABSOLUTELY wrong.

The POINT (remember we discuss to make points and share views), was that EchoEchoPal asked if I was going to pay for my neighbor's house when it is destroyed by increased erosion caused by my wall. I stated that if it was a house built after 1985, then theoretically it should survive regardless (THIS IS D.E.P. LOGIC, not mine!!!).

Then SHELLY shares some pictures with us from Navarre Beach showing how a house that we assume is built after 1985 has indeed collapsed. Then I showed her where there were other houses adjacent to this one that were much much larger, actually survive. It was just that picking one "example" (house that failed in her picture) and then saying it's the norm is not fair in any arguement.

The remaining homes that are still standing with minimal damage, support "D.E.P.'s" position (not mine) that post 1985 can survive even if completely undermined. NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS. I'm just the messenger. READ the DEP rules regarding retaining walls in between your mai-tai's.

Regarding that damn old dark sand....
AGAIN and AGAIN the title of this thread is SEAWALLS !!! Quit muddying (PUN REALLY INTENDED) up the water with all this dark sand crap. Somehow, you and a few others seem to imply that all retaining wall owners are responsible for the actions of a few. MOST of us truly resent that (but coming from you, I don't take it too seriously). Why don't you simply do some research, and simply EXPOSE those who you think are "ir"responsible. If you're right you will (based on your tone) receive immense satisfaction. If you're wrong you'll simply just get sued for slander.

As you drift about in your boat, don't forget to put suntan lotion on, as I know you're going to be TOTALLY absorbed in all that good DEP reading that I suggested and just forget where you are.

By the way, I'm not EZ. ;-) I wouldn't hire him based on my meeting with him and some other reasons. By the way, I guess you must know, since you are "ONE" with the beach, he was "fired" by the large project owners he was involved with.

Be safe.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

I do not disagree with your assessment of the walkovers and storm debris -- for those same reasons, I have changed my opinion on charging for debris removal of walkovers (BTW,it is my understanding that the TDC pays for this clean up of the beaches, and that $$$ comes from bed tax), and I think you add a great suggestion of a recovery fee of some sort for things such as walkovers. Can you imagine the red tape involved in sorting through piles of debris like I saw at Oyster Lake last year to try to identify and take an accounting of the debris? That alone would cost more than it is worth.

Yes, Kurt pays me $100 per post, but he is way behind on his payments - close to $1 Million . Actually, he pays me in all the free SoWal.com stickers that I can put on my car, and he says that you, too, can be paid to post. :funn:

I'm glad you are the one that mentioned that TDC (and the beach clean-up) is funded with the bed tax. I thought about mentioning this "small" fact but of course I'm completely biased at destroying the beach - therefore some of those out there would not believe me.

Kurt, you owe me 2 cents (commission) for the posts so far. I need these funds so that I can continue to give everyone else my 2 cents.

Thanks, SmilingJoe for being level-headed.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

BMBVagrant says: ? Make up your freakin' mind...
The walls will fail and cause debris.
The walls will survive and cause my neighbors home to fall in.
Which is it ?? ?

to BMBvagrant: All of the above

BMBVagrant says: ?Perhaps you should change your handle to ECHO pal. Your repetitive crap is starting to annoy me. Guess what?? You've have succeeded in the art of ANNOYANCE PUNISHMENT for a gulf front property owner who is simply trying to protect his property by the rules and laws granted to us by the GREAT STATE OF FLORIDA !! Sleep well tonight, young soldier.?

Dear BMBVagrant: If I am being repetitive it is because it is obvious from your responses that you still don?t get it. I suggest you reread all my posts as a remedial exercise. Frankly I don?t think your problem is cognitive but an emotional denial of reality.

I find your responses inappropriately arrogant, angry and condescending. Also, your self righteousness is nauseating.

How one responds to criticism is a good test of character. It quickly unveiled yours.

In addition, just because something is ?allowed? doesn?t make it right. You have to use some personal judgment and take responsibility for it and and be prepared to suffer the consequences. It is inconsistent to condemn the government in one instance and then in the next use them as an excuse for your actions.

*

Stop taking EXLAX and take a chill pill! The only consequence I'm suffering right now is the same old simple-minded crap you contiuousy throw on this thread.

"I find your responses inappropriately arrogant, angry and condescending. Also, your self righteousness is nauseating."

I just slit my wrists.

 

[ecopal]

If beach front owners (or any of the rest of us for that matter) lose their home as many Katrina victims did, FEMA will relocate them/us to a nice FEMA trailer village. Or if you are really lucky you might get to go to the Houston Astro dome which is personally recommended by Barbara Bush.

Also, why would the government buy beach front property that has been washed out to sea? Flood insurance does not cover the land your dwelling sits on. If they did it would be considered as distressed and blighted property and no beach front owner should expect the government to give them the property value of when it was a viable property.

In New Orleans eminent domain maybe used to take buildable land from owners at a fair price for the common good. How is it in the common good to give a beach front owner full pre-hurricane property value to a lot that is no longer there?

 

[SHELLY]

Well, if the gov't is going to take the land, they better do it quickly while the prices are at the..., how much was the discount Shelly, 40%? :funn:

That's Monty's estimation....me?...I just put my low-ball offer on the back of a business card and walk away.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

I did misspeak a bit above. I don't really believe you should pay to fix an undermined neighbor's house, especially if you are following the rule of law, but I agree that all of ecopal's concerns are valid, as to what will or may happen during the next major storm. Seawalls/retaining walls are very likely to affect neighboring structures without them in a negative way, based on all the evidence, though I guess in your case everyone around you is armored this may not apply to you specifically.

I'm not an argumentative person. I'm just lamenting. And by the way, in "eminent domain," gulf front owners would not have a choice. It's defined as "expropriation of private property without the owner's consent" in return for "just compensation." As ecopal says it is risky to own gulf front. We have all seen it in the past couple of years. To protect the entire area some people just might have to lose their property, again on an as-needed basis.

Look, I never said EChoEChoPal's concerns were invalid. I never said that owning gulf front was not risky. I never said that retaining walls would not affect unprotected neighboring strutures in a negative way.

I will say this AGAIN... it IS my right to construct the retaining wall on my land to protect my structure with my money as permitted by DEP and OUR government. It's that simple.

If one disagrees, take it up with the county, state and feds. I'm not a government official representing my constituents here on the forum (although I might have found my calling) .

All this personal attack stuff is a really a waste of time for everyone. BTW, nobody ever accused me of ALWAYS using my time wisely - especially lately here on this thread.

Somehow, a few misguided posters seem to think that because of their "half-baked" posts, that I am going to go outside, dismantle the wall, haul it off, and just sit there and wait for the next hurricane to take my remaining land and home away. As much as some would like that, well....I'd rather just sip a mai-tai instead.

By the way, I don't think you misspoke regarding potential litigation developing as a result of "increased" erosion on neighboring properties. I imagine there will be cases as a result even if one is permitted to have a retaining wall. BUT (and a big BUT at that), as long as litigation takes, these exposed properties would become severely eroded anyway based on fact (Dennis took 20 feet from us) before a decision would be reached by a judge.

You see, I have just about agreed with all the concerns discussed on this thread. But my wall is staying, none the less.

Let me ask you this.... I have (more than once) tried to point out a difference between the "bluffs" in our area that have been carved way past the point of any protective white sand dunes that might have existed. This compared with, let's say, Navarre Beach or Panama City Beach. Do you think both geological situations warrant the same consideration when it comes to retaining walls?

Best Regards.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

If beach front owners (or any of the rest of us for that matter) lose their home as many Katrina victims did, FEMA will relocate them/us to a nice FEMA trailer village. Or if you are really lucky you might get to go to the Houston Astro dome which is personally recommended by Barbara Bush.

Also, why would the government buy beach front property that has been washed out to sea? Flood insurance does not cover the land your dwelling sits on. If they did it would be considered as distressed and blighted property and no beach front owner should expect the government to give them the property value of when it was a viable property.

In New Orleans eminent domain maybe used to take buildable land from owners at a fair price for the common good. How is it in the common good to give a beach front owner full pre-hurricane property value to a lot that is no longer there?

" Flood insurance does not cover the land your dwelling sits on."

Dude....Time to STOP taking Ex-lax !!!

 

[SHELLY]

Then SHELLY shares some pictures with us from Navarre Beach showing how a house that we assume is built after 1985 has indeed collapsed. Then I showed her where there were other houses adjacent to this one that were much much larger, actually survive. It was just that picking one "example" (house that failed in her picture) and then saying it's the norm is not fair in any arguement.

There were others that collapsed after Ivan (yes they were built after 1985) and more after Dennis. That one "survived" both and collapsed later. Here's one they believe will be next: Post 1985 Home on Pilings

What kind of damage do you think a Cat 3-4 would do to our area if it wasn't 60 - 250 miles away? We've only been "kissed" by Opal and the others that followed.

I walked Navarre beach right after Hurricane Ivan and saw rebar twisted like spaghetti and pilings snapped like twigs. Those who believe there are products that can hold up to the fury of Mother Nature will be proven wrong. If she can't knock it down (doubtful)...she'll just take her beach and go elsewhere.

 

[ecopal]

The Walton Sun report says: ?Attorney Gary Shipman, who represents some beach front property owners, believes there should be more investigation into other options, including the county applying for a permit that would cover the entire shoreline. As it stands, the county is only looking to permit existing armoring structures. ??I think there should be more discussion on why they aren?t discussing a blanket plan,? he said. ?

My concern: Is this a thinly veiled clever attempt to get the the county to pay for the environmental mitigation needed as a result of the seawall?s take from the beach and habitat?

My guess is that the seawall owners are trying to push their big expensive problem on the county. Hope the county doesn?t fall for it.

Please consider contacting the County commissioners to tell them you do not want tax dollars used to subsidize seawall take and mitigation problems.

Commissioner Scott Brannon
Tel: (850) 835-4860
Fax: (850) 835-4836
E-mail:* brascott@co.walton.fl.us

Commissioner Kenneth Pridgen *
Phone: (850) 834-6328
Fax: (850) 834-6385
Email: prikenneth@co.walton.fl.us

Commmissioner Larry Jones
Donna Walsinkham, District 3*Executive Assistant
Phone: (850) 892-8474
Fax: (850)892-8475
e-mail: jonlarry@co.walton.fl.us

Commissioner Ro Cuchens
(850) 835-4834.

Commissioner Cindy Meadows
Santa Rosa Beach, FL. 32459
Phone: (850) 622-3059
Fax: (850) 622-3067
e-mail:* meacindy@co.walton.fl.us