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NoHall

hmmmm......can't remember
May 28, 2007
9,032
996
Northern Hall County, GA
I love it! Colanders!

And, it is one of the things that has always made me crazy about organizations--one size does not fit all. Ironically, it is often cheaper in the long run to look at things differently--unfortunately, it is difficult to convince many who are "in charge" that, that is the case.

When my son told me he was joining the military, I had only one request: that he join either the Air Force or the Coast Guard...because I was terrified that my outspoken, creative, artist child would be crushed by the military demand to "follow orders" no matter what. (I had worked for both the Air Force and the Navy, and had some interaction with the Marine Corps). I have been pleasantly surprised to see that the military--at least the Air Force-- has changed a lot since the 60s and 70s. His creativity and "look at it differently" has paid off big time! for him and he has been able to make quite a contribution, under some difficult circumstances. Now, he tells me he wants a job somewhere in Research and Development so that he can look at the way things are, and design a way to make them work better!

NoHall, I have not had to deal with the situations and the students you describe. I am sure that you handle them well and I do not mean to contradict what you say. Every case is different and obviously you are doing a good job.

That is not always the case though. I am doing a two week seminar with incoming college freshmen this week and next...starting tomorrow. One entire session is devoted to helping them feel comfortable asking questions of the instructor. So many do not understand something, yet they are afraid to question...and as a result, they end up completely lost.

Now, I have really veered off topic. Sorry. Maybe Kurt can move us to a new thread!


Yes, we have completely derailed--apologies again to Kurt, JDarg, and the rest.

The way I worded it at first did make it seem like I was squashing questions. Sometimes I'm sure I do in the panic of the moment---I teach band, chorus and drama, and the band especially has some pressure. We have parades monthly, inspections, ceremonies, etc. and sometimes the communication that comes down to me is not so great. As a result, I've had to teach the boys to obey without question and let ME take the heat if it's not right. We do discuss the procedure (as best as I know it) beforehand and debrief afterward.

I WANT them to think through how we will get from point A to point B ahead of time, and I want them to analyze how we can do it better next time. They have to write a short journal entry for me (writing across the curriculum!) each week about goals that they want to meet, that they've met, and the ones they did not meet. I even allow them to criticize my methods in those journals as long as they are constructive (they must offer an intelligent solution) and respectful.

I respond to the journals, but I don't think many of them read them. Even so, the journals have become an incredibly effective way for them to analyze, criticize, and think ahead.

That seminar sounds great. Communication is such an important thing to learn, and college freshmen have so much intimidation to overcome. Whether it's in the military or in the workplace, I still believe that if a student is mindful of others' perspective and shows courtesy and respect, he will be heard when he speaks up.

...and no one will want to paddle him! :D (Just trying to tie back in to the original thread!)
 

Susan Horn

Beach Fanatic
FWIW, I don't think we de-railed. I think it is impossible to discuss something as important and emotionally/culturally charged as gov't sanctioned child abuse without delving into broader and deeper issues of our culture and gov't that are, or may be, related. It's a systems-thinking thing.

Nothing exists or operates in isolation, but the kind of reductionist approach/world view that thinks mechanistically -- that thinks things exist and operate in isolation -- is, IMHO, a huge part of why we have so many colossal and complex messes on our hands right now. For ever how many years now, we're been acting like the blind men with the elephant; time for USA to take off the blinders, see the big picture, and deal with it.
 

GoodWitch58

Beach Fanatic
Oct 10, 2005
4,810
1,923
FWIW, I don't think we de-railed. I think it is impossible to discuss something as important and emotionally/culturally charged as gov't sanctioned child abuse without delving into broader and deeper issues of our culture and gov't that are, or may be, related. It's a systems-thinking thing.

Nothing exists or operates in isolation, but the kind of reductionist approach/world view that thinks mechanistically -- that thinks things exist and operate in isolation -- is, IMHO, a huge part of why we have so many colossal and complex messes on our hands right now. For ever how many years now, we're been acting like the blind men with the elephant; time for USA to take off the blinders, see the big picture, and deal with it.

okay. I like that approach. One of the things I like so much about Sowal, is the opportunity it offers to share new, different, opposing, agreeing ideas....

I do agree that one of the big problems we have experienced in this country in recent years, is a refusal to see the world for the way it is...if we are not careful, the global community will move along without us, and it will be our children and grandchildren who suffer for it.

FWIW, I think our younger generation sees this much more than some of us who are older. This is, IMO, one of the reasons for Pres. Obama's appeal to the younger set--and one of the reasons so many older, more conservative people seem threatened by many of his ideas. The world is not a static place--we will eventually move, whether we like it or now. We will chose, either by design or default...

And, removing corporal punishment as a option in our public school system in 2009 seems a real good way to come into the 21st Century to me.

Did anyone happen to notice the key factor linking all the school districts in Florida that allow paddling as an option?
 

ShallowsNole

Beach Fanatic
Jun 22, 2005
4,279
857
Pt Washington
In reference to authority -

Asking questions and suggesting different ways of doing something, if done respectfully, is one thing. Not respecting authority is quite another.

There are some people in this world that you absolutely do not smart back to - including law enforcement, judges, principals, parents - and I am amazed at the young people I see nearly every day who have somehow not grasped that fact. :eek:

Granted, they tend to be the same young people, over and over. They are learning about life the hard way. The vast majority of the kids I know, know where the line gets drawn - and the vast majority don't get themselves in the situation where they have to interact with authority figures, other than their parents.
 

GoodWitch58

Beach Fanatic
Oct 10, 2005
4,810
1,923
I don't know my counties that well, but let me take a wild guess. Lots of the ones with the most corporal punishment were in NW Florida?

Not just that. If you look through the report, the last pages have a map of the state showing in vivid color the counties/districts that have incidents of corporal punishment...they are overwhelmingly the more rural counties, including NW Florida...except for Okaloosa. Even with the latest data and while it was an option still in Okaloosa, there were no incidents reported in that district.

For anyone who is interested, there is quite a lot of research about the correlation of corporal punishment to many factors, including academic scores, socie-economic situations, religious belief, crime rates, abuse rates, etc. You can goggle and find much info.

The United Methodist Church has apparently taken a strong stand against corporal punishment. For more information on that, I found this interesting:

http://www.nospank.net/cnpindex.htm#church1
 
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GoodWitch58

Beach Fanatic
Oct 10, 2005
4,810
1,923
A POME BY ME:

I say more hugs,
Will bring happier mugs.
Instead of hitting,
what about talking and sitting?
Wayward children, the Universe will eventually self correct,
without a butt and a board to connect!
If violence and hitting children is all OK today,
then murder, rape, torture, and waterboarding, will just never go away..... : (

I did not know you were such a good poet. Thanks!:clap:
 

Susan Horn

Beach Fanatic
Not just that. If you look through the report, the last pages have a map of the state showing in vivid color the counties/districts that have incidents of corporal punishment...they are overwhelmingly the more rural counties, including NW Florida...except for Okaloosa. Even with the latest data and while it was an option still in Okaloosa, there were no incidents reported in that district.

For anyone who is interested, there is quite a lot of research about the correlation of corporal punishment to many factors, including academic scores, socie-economic situations, religious belief, crime rates, abuse rates, etc. You can goggle and find much info.

The United Methodist Church has apparently taken a strong stand against corporal punishment. For more information on that, I found this interesting:

http://www.nospank.net/cnpindex.htm#church1

WOW, When I loaded that report the first time, somehow I only got to see the first three pages.

I don't know if I have the heart to google around for those stats.
 

Andy A

Beach Fanatic
Feb 28, 2007
4,389
1,738
Blue Mountain Beach
The editorial in this week's Beach Breeze/Herald by Ron Kelley is an excellent example of what many consider are weaknesses in our school system. School board members, if you haven't read it, please do so.
 
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