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fisshforfun

Beach Crab
Feb 14, 2006
4
0
I would like to respond to TWT512" post regarding the DRB process within the Watersound Development. He states just 10% have a negative experience, and suggest with the correct architect, the process should be much smoother. The problem I have with this statement is that owners are required to use ONLY their approved list of architects! Now I don't understand, how or why if Watersound DRB requires one to use only the approved Watersound architects that there should even be 10% (which is extremely low cause I know at least 15 very unhappy owners). Like other owners, I took my time and interviewed several approved architects. I made my choice based on his prior experience within Watercolor and other developments. When I began my quest to build in Watersound, other than Mr. Christ, no one else had even began a home in Watersound. Its obvious some architects are allowed the right to ignore the DRB pattern book, while others like myself have to adhere not only to the guide book, but in addition to the subjective opinions and personal taste's of the DRB board. Would have been nice to have had the opportunity to have one the architects who have been allowed to work outside the DRB pattern book and guidelines, however two years into the process, its a little to late to change. I guess the moral to the story is before you purchase a lot in a St. Joe development, try to find out which architects on the approved list are allowed to work outside their guide book and get the "DRB rubber stamp of approval", otherwise expect a lot of headaches and problems. It would be extremely helpful if the Watersound DRB could put little astrict's by those architects names so owners and their families are subjected to their abuse!
 

Hobiecat

Beach Crab
Feb 15, 2006
2
0
fishforfun, did you use a builder already approved by St. Joe or did you bring in your own? We talked with a couple of "approved" builders, but ended up saving a significant amount by getting our own builder approved.
 

Uncle Timmy

Beach Fanatic
Nov 15, 2004
1,013
31
Blue Mountain Beach
fisshforfun said:
I would like to respond to TWT512" post regarding the DRB process within the Watersound Development. He states just 10% have a negative experience, and suggest with the correct architect, the process should be much smoother. The problem I have with this statement is that owners are required to use ONLY their approved list of architects! Now I don't understand, how or why if Watersound DRB requires one to use only the approved Watersound architects that there should even be 10% (which is extremely low cause I know at least 15 very unhappy owners). Like other owners, I took my time and interviewed several approved architects. I made my choice based on his prior experience within Watercolor and other developments. When I began my quest to build in Watersound, other than Mr. Christ, no one else had even began a home in Watersound. Its obvious some architects are allowed the right to ignore the DRB pattern book, while others like myself have to adhere not only to the guide book, but in addition to the subjective opinions and personal taste's of the DRB board. Would have been nice to have had the opportunity to have one the architects who have been allowed to work outside the DRB pattern book and guidelines, however two years into the process, its a little to late to change.

...And that's why I was reluctant to get in the middle of this -clearly some emotions are running a bit hot. Again, I have a lot of experience dealing with these communities and feel like I could present a balanced opinion on the process.

FFF, you need to accept that your experience is not typical. Again, I don't doubt your troubles, I have even had similar experiences. The majority have been smooth.

I wouldn't get to worked up about the 'Approved List' for either architects or builders. It isn't difficult to get on either list. Just because a firm is listed on the 'approved list' does not mean they have ever permited a house there. Work with an experienced architect.(Your experience suggests otherwise but I think the advice still stands as valid.)

I don't know of any architects who are allowed to work outside the guidebook and have an automatic "ARB Stamp of Approval".

I will agree that St. Joe's approval process needs to be overhauled. They have one of the largest, full-time review boards around and that always proves problematic. Those folks need to justify their jobs afterall.
 

Kurt

Admin
Oct 15, 2004
2,322
5,020
SoWal
mooncreek.com
fisshforfun said:
Kurt, the reason why the sales department at Watersound is not informing potential buyers in Watersound about the other 80+ lots is because, those are re-sale lots..ie. not new sales. There responsibility is for selling lots and making money for St. Joe Development.

Please consider these honest questions. Just trying to understand the whole issue.

So the other lots, for resale, are listed by other Realtors? Presumably at prices lower than the new lots, but possibly higher? So if someone walks in to the WS sales office looking for a lot then the sales associate should show them all the lots for sale in the development regardless of who lists them? What if a lot listed by someone else is less expensive but only has 6 months left until the buildout deadline?

Do you think a buyer is going to pay one million for a lot from St. Joe when there is one comparable for $950k next to it? If so, is it unethical of the salesperson to write the contract? Is the free market not at work?

Also - aren't St. Joe's sales reps employees or agents of St. Joe and their responsibility is to sell the lots owned by St. Joe, not others? Wouldn't any buyer in WaterSound be savvy enough to know what the score is?

What about buyer beware and due diligence, or just plain common sense?
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,644
1,773
fisshforfun said:
Kurt, the reason why the sales department at Watersound is not informing potential buyers in Watersound about the other 80+ lots is because, those are re-sale lots..ie. not new sales. There responsibility is for selling lots and making money for St. Joe Development.
If JOE's sales staff are not licensed sales associates, and they are not required to be, I don't believe they can show any listings outside of the lots owned by JOE.

I would be very upset if I asked an agent or St Joe sales rep to see the entire list of lots available in WS, and they showed me only their lots. However, if you don't ask the question, you should not expect an answer.

As a Realtor, I listen to the customer to hear the type of property for which they are looking, then I try to narrow the search for them. If presented with 100s of homes to look at, the potential buyer would quickly feel overwhelmed. As a buyer, I would rather look at a handful that fit my criteria, and I would ask for the price ranges for all the properties that fit the characteristics of my home of preference.

I am not privy to the details of your encounter with the sales staff at WS, so it is difficult to know the why behind their method of practice. It sounds like your story is one of those nightmares which fortunately, only on occasion I hear.
 

monty

Beach Comber
Nov 23, 2005
48
0
fisshforfun said:
A couple of years ago I made the mistake of purchasing a lot in the prestigious Watersound St. Joe development here in South Walton County. After years of trying to get plans approved by their design and review process, tons of headaches, threats of $2500.00 per month fines for not stating a project on time, a total disrespect of owners, I could never recommended anyone to purchase a lot in a St. Joe development! Even though you are forced to select an approved Watersound architect, the Watersound DRB committee jerks every lot owner around for months at a time. There is an official pattern book, but this committee only uses it for reference, so owners and architects are left with becoming mind readers! There is no parity or equitable toward their reviews, and you can expect your plans to have to be redrawn at least a half dozen times. Guess its job security of the architects (and the DRB board members) who on average charge 10% of total build out costs. No one in the sales office will tell you that there is over 80 lots for resale, nor do they mention to potential buyers to expect several years of headaches in the DRB process before you can expect approval to build! No wonder there are over 80 lots of sale in the Watersound development! They sell you a lot and then do everything they can to make sure you never start your home just so they can collect $2500.00/month when you pass their deadline! I have even heard of lot owners whom are giving away lots to charity just to avoid stiff penalties. The state of Florida needs to be investigating this specific St. Joe development because you would think its either a borderline scam or fraud with respect of how they are treating lot owners! Personally, I recommend anyone to think twice before every purchasing a lot in any St. Joe development!

I have heard of both nightmares and good stories about the DRB process. But, I agree with FFN that the majority of stories are negative. There are several buildersand architects in WS and WC that are very frustrated with the process--its not just the owners. Given what I have heard, I would not look forward to building from scratch.

That said, the DRB certainly is making sure that both of these communities are beautifully laid out. The communities are very well done.
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,644
1,773
My brother has built and is building several homes in WC, and he has never had any major setbacks or problems with JOE. I know other builders that would ditto his remarks. I understand your frustrations with JOE, but understand that your situation is not the norm.
 
C

crabbydick

SoWal Guest
My partners and I tried to get house plans approved to build in St. Joes Watersound development. Their DRB process is inefficent, drove our architect nuts and made everyone?s life miserable. The process and development appeared to lack direction and leadership. We gave up and sold our lot last year before the storms hit. Made money, but I don?t see how anyone can expect to get plans approved to build in that development under its current system. Not sure if I would ever purchase another lot in any future St. Joe project again.
 

Kurt

Admin
Oct 15, 2004
2,322
5,020
SoWal
mooncreek.com
crabbydick said:
My partners and I tried to get house plans approved to build in St. Joes Watersound development. Their DRB process is inefficent, drove our architect nuts and made everyone?s life miserable. The process and development appeared to lack direction and leadership. We gave up and sold our lot last year before the storms hit. Made money, but I don?t see how anyone can expect to get plans approved to build in that development under its current system. Not sure if I would ever purchase another lot in any future St. Joe project again.

Fishforfun - I sent you a PM the last two times you did this. You can register as many aliases as you want, but if you are doing it just to gind your ax you will get banned. Last warning. :nono1:
 

Cork On the Ocean

directionally challenged
kurt said:
Fishforfun - I sent you a PM the last two times you did this. You can register as many aliases as you want, but if you are doing it just to gind your ax you will get banned. Last warning. :nono1:

Fishforfun, you'll find honest communication here on both sides and I can certainly understand your frustration but must play nice! Don't get banned we appreciate your input and experiences.

Regarding the selective listings given by JOE salespeople. Many may be unaware that some brokers pay a higher commission split to agents for selling "inhouse" listings meaning that their agents make more for selling you property that is listed with their broker. I don't know if this is the case with JOE. I don't think it's in the buyer's best interest and don't subscribe to it but on the other hand, as a broker, I also feel an obligation to my clients that have listed with me to do everything I can to sell their property. This is the dilemma of a transaction broker. The only solution that I know is to offer a 50/50 split on the commission with the selling side so that I can put as much on the table for all agents (not only my own) to sell our listings but the transaction broker agency does present problems as SJ noted.

Regarding DRB's. I'm on the Seacrest Beach DRB which is granted, not nearly as cumbersome. You are correct, however, that the process is VERY subjective. Even though the code proscribes guidelines, the subjectivity is necessary to prevent people from putting bright orange houses with purple trim and because variances are sometime logistically necessary. I can say though, that there are also many "approved" builders (not architects so much) that are nightmares to work with. They don't complete homes as approved, often surreptitiously, they pirate owner's utilities, and infringe on other's enjoyment of their property during construction. They are also sometimes property owners of many community parcels which compounds the problem. These builder's have a track record, we've been working with them for months (maybe years) to resolve problems that they've created. Rather than kick them out and enter into litigation with the homeowner's monies, we watch every move they make very closely and make sure that every i is dotted so that there's no wiggle room for them to say, "it wasn't clear" or "you said I could do that". I don't know your situation but sometimes the fact that someone has built many homes in a subdivision doesn't mean that they are in good standing. In fact, just the opposite - they may have many skeletons and homeowner complaints. Again, don't know if this had anything to do with your experience, but it happens a lot. JOE's design codes (and their DRBS) are responsible for beautiful communities and I can only say that sometimes things aren't always as they seem. Do they need revamped? Probably. A year is an inordinate amount of time. Our plans are reviewed within 2 weeks of being presented because we meet every 2 weeks. We redline changes and if they are made, there's no reason that they aren't approved at next meeting. I'm not saying that Seacrest Beach is the same calibre as Watersound, Watercolor, Rosemary etc but it's a fine community and we work hard to try to make sure that the homeowner gets what they pay for.

That's my 2 cents :D
 
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