Study on Geotubes in Texas

[Pirate]

That is truly disturbing. How is it that these projects are allowed to slope the beach on an unuseable grade right to the waters edge? This isn't a personal sand dune, its a beach. Who in the he)) is approving these things or is it just a free for all? I sure don't want to give up the beach so someone can save a house instead of rebuilding it like it should have been done in the first place. The beach is what makes this place great, not the beach front houses. The houses can be replaced easily, the beach Is there truly a commissioner doing these projects?

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Here is an in depth study of geotubes in Texas. I typed in "Failed Geotubes" in Google and this was the first article to come up. It is technical and in depth but basically you can jump to the end and read the list of conculsions but if you have the time it is an interesting read. Some of the photos show how horrible the beach can look with these "worms". Basically they are expensive, have to be re-covered with sand and holes repaired after every storm. And in some areas, look at the photo on page 24 there is no beach left where they were installed; same affect as seawalls.

http://www.beg.utexas.edu/coastal/2001 final report.pdf

Hi Dave,

I had thorughly researched the various types of retaining walls before making my decision and influencing others to choose what I still see as the right choice.

Florida DEP paid PBS&J (engineering firm), to perform a study of ProTecTube III that was installed at Cape San Blas in 2003 and was eventually hit by Frances and Ivan.

Their conclusions were that ....

"The ProTecTube III system is not designed to protect against hurricanes and did not prevent erosion losses during Hurricane Ivan."

"Both ends of the ProTecTube III were flanked resulting in increased erosion and scalloping as a result of Hurricane Ivan. Outside the vicinity of these flanked zones, the dunes returned to a position consistent with that of the adjacent shoreline. Based on available data for the study, the beach in the area of the ProTecTube III system did not fair any better than properties adjacent to the project site."

"The ProTecTube III system did not sustain any physical damage resulting from Tropical Storm Bonnie and Hurricanes Frances and Ivan. The system did not appear to be twisted, ripped or deformed in any way following the storm events. Evidence of damage to other coastal armoring structures in the project region was observed, while the ProTecTube III system remained intact and undamaged."


I believe my choice for a composite (or even a properly installed vinyl) wall is superior to the ProTecTube III and similar products.

BUT, the report also says the ProTecTube survived whereas other structures fail. I believe most of these other structures that failed were mostly marginally designed and installed wood retaining walls, possibly other materials.

These tubes may sound more environmentally friendly....maybe in certain situations. But I don't believe high elevations are adequately protected by ProTecTube or similiar product unless they are stacked higher. The problem with that is that the higher they are, they further out the base has to stick out in order to provide stability.

 

[CastlesOfSand]

Pic posted by ecopal

This pic makes me really sad.

 

[Smiling JOe]

http://www.sowal.com/bb/attachment.php?attachmentid=1562&stc=1&thumb=1Pic posted by ecopal

This pic makes me really sad.

As sad as this one taken of the beach at Blue Mtn Beach recently?

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Pic posted by ecopal

This pic makes me really sad.

What about the picture makes you "really sad"?

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Thanks to Dave R. for the additional info on how seawalls destroy beaches.
This is very upsetting.

What is even more appalling is that our county government let BF owners put up these monstrosities.

Even worse is the county is even considering subsidizing the mitigation plan that is now required as a result of the environmental damage of the seawalls.

Below is the list of our County Commissioners to call:

Commissioner Scott Brannon
Tel: (850) 835-4860
Fax: (850) 835-4836
E-mail:* brascott@co.walton.fl.us


Commissioner Kenneth Pridgen *
Phone: (850) 834-6328
Fax: (850) 834-6385
Email: prikenneth@co.walton.fl.us

Commmissioner Larry Jones
Donna Walsinkham, District 3*Executive Assistant
Phone: (850) 892-8474
Fax: (850)892-8475
e-mail: jonlarry@co.walton.fl.us

Commissioner Ro Cuchens
(850) 835-4834.

Commissioner Cindy Meadows
Santa Rosa Beach, FL. 32459
Phone: (850) 622-3059
Fax: (850) 622-3067
e-mail:* meacindy@co.walton.fl.us

Hey Ecopal,

Why isn't the fax or email for Ro Cuchens? All the other commissioners have fax or email. Just curious.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

As sad as this one taken of the beach at Blue Mtn Beach recently?

OK, I'll bite (not I bite for the benefit of my detractors) ;-) . What's the significance of this picture?

TIA

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Dear Dave R,
Thank you.
It is horrible to see so graphically how the seawalls and geotubes that private BF owners have put up will destroy our beautiful beaches.

What is predictable and also disturbing is that the seawall owners are pressuring the county to use tax dollars to assist them pay for their seawall environmental ?take? and the mitigation plan.

The county is already helping the beach front owners by facilitating the writing of a grant to help pay for the take and mitigation plans and currently plans to charge the seawall owners a fee. I support this facilitation.

But the seawall owners want more. Seawall owners are lobbying for a county wide ?blanket plan?. This indeed would be a nice ?cozy security blanket? for the seawall owners.

The ?blanket plan? that the seawall owners are seeking is ?code? for placing costs for the seawall take and mitigation plan on the taxpayers .


Do we really want the county subsidizing or encouraging seawalls which are notorious for destroying beaches?

This is to be discussed at the next BCC meeting. We should all call the county commissioners to tell them what we think. You can bet many seawall owners are.

There you go again, ecopal. This thread is titled "Re: Study on Geotubes in Texas". Your post was the first to go significantly off topic. Dave R started the thread with factual report regarding geotubes in Texas. Heck, I even provided some additional information backing his observation created by an engineering company for Florida DEP regarding the Cape San Blas area. I thought this was appropriate for this post.

I appologize to Dave R for jumping on his thread to call you down on the mis-information you continue to spout in such a manner as to do nothing but create antagonism.....remember that word?

"What antagonism is that SOB BMBV talking about now??" I'll tell ya....

You said "What is predictable and also disturbing is that the seawall owners are pressuring the county to use tax dollars to assist them pay for their seawall environmental ?take? and the mitigation plan. " You have a tendancy of using absolute terms. "...the seawall owners" implies ALL seawall owners in my mind. I don't, nor my neighbors to the east, nor my neighbors to the west don't have a clue of what you're talking about. But you must be factually correct because you're everyone's ecopal.

In just your first (one sentence) paragraph, you use, questionable at least, image inducing words such as horrible, graphically, destroy. The only part I agree with in your first paragraph is "beautiful beaches".

Ecopal, I, yes me, will not not allow you continually post facts that are unchallenged and for the most part unsubstantiated. Even worse, you are accomplishing very little except for alienating me and a lot of my good BMB neighbors. Do you somehow take comfort in that? Your vendetta seems as if it's more personal than ECO-logical.

It just seems, for whatever reason, nobody really wants to "reach out and touch you". So I've appointed myself to provide some fair and balance response to your postings.

We, GF property owners, (I believe) are willing to pay for our fair share of the the take and mitigation permit. Who is telling you otherwise? Maybe I can drop them a post .

Ecopal, you do not know all the causes for the erosion problems, nor do you have all the answers, nor do you have the inside scoop on conspiracy theories regarding retaining wall owners and the county. OR DO YOU? If so, please share your sources.

One other statement you made above NEEDS SERIOUS ATTENTION...
You said, "Do we really want the county subsidizing or encouraging seawalls which are notorious for destroying beaches?"

Not that I agree that my retaining wall is destroying beaches, why do you insist that the county is subsidizing our retaining wall? Of course you had to throw in your aggenda "notorious for destroying beaches" in the same sentence.

Serious dialog is something I see lacking in your posts. Your posts are typically one way soapbox grandstands. OTOH, I TRY to induce dialog. I want to EXCHANGE ideas. I will not try to pass off "self perceived facts" as absolute and factual without some kind of back up.

It's very tough to tolerate some of your posts (without responding as I have) when you verbally pedal your agenda (with an alarmist flair) against "all" GF owners such as you have above without recourse.

Respectfully,
BMBV

 

[Miss Kitty]

As sad as this one taken of the beach at Blue Mtn Beach recently?

What is that?

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

more upsetting to me is the looks of the beach at Blue Mtn Beach. .......

Smiling Joe,

I agree with most of your assessment.

Here's how I see "it". BMB has a lot of older beach style houses. Many were built before a CCCL even existed (from what I understand). The cost basis that some of these owners have in these homes is very low. Some of those owners may not have the financial means to just throw in up to $200,000 for a decent retaining wall and sand. And don't forget, some people are just "financially imprudent" = cheap.

So.. an owner asks him or herself, why should they put in a lot of money to protect this old structure. So they don't. They look for the lowest bid for the type of wall they want.

So what happens... contractors with experience mainly in bay or land based construction now solicit jobs on the beach which require more expertise (in my opinion) that it does on the bay or land.

The contractors started off with a low bids because of (I believe) inexperience. Some owners managed to lock in these bids with a contract. What I notice is that some of these contractors became stretched out as they executed, with the large amount of work they received and also, because of inefficiency.

The speed, efficiency and professionalism of our contractor completely dwarfed (in my opinion) the majority of contractors out there. This is not just my opinion by the way.

What's the point of the above you ask?.................
I too see the same craziness in regards to material, equipment (both functioning and non-functioning) and so on.

Located east of the 83 access, I once mentioned on a post that a composite wall that was going in. The driven sheet piles looked like crooked teeth on a red neck who can't spell the word dentist (sorry if I offended anyone ). Now they have been yanked back out like bad teeth, the last I saw. Are they starting over? I'm not sure. Maybe you saw, SJ? But now the April 30th deadline is bearing down on everyone. Talking about pressure for some. If they don't finish by then, the wall may be open to destruction if we get hit during the summer before they can come back during the winter to finish.

There are good contractors and there are bad contractors. I believe a few local contractors got in over their head and simply can't perform to the level needed for a good retaining wall that is built to withstand forces of a seawall.

About your statement....
"HOWEVER, what the phuck were they thinking not bringing it back at least as far as the cliffs which were exposed in the previous storms? That will be the first one to wash out after the first decent sized storm."

Now you're sounding like me with my concern for one of my neighbor's inferior wall. In addition, because of that, I asked our contractor to "extend" the end curtain wall adjacent to the inferior wall a few more feet up to the bluff.

You'll also notice (probably buried now), that the return wall for the house just west of the 83 access went back quite a ways for the same reason you're discussing.

SUMMARY:
I believe BMB will clean up nicely, no real worries here. Just hang in there. I and my neighbors certainly have. I bought in to this area for its beauty. I still believe it's there. I will personally try to do anything I can to preserve it (believe it or not).

Today's weather was gorgeous. The beach looked gorgeous (other than the above). The tourists are upon us. Restaurants are packed again. Our retaining wall is finished. Our walkover is in. Things are looking up from my perspective.

Let's take it one hurricane season at a time. We're getting good at that.