Discussion in 'Real Estate' started by Dave Rauschkolb, Oct 31, 2005.
Peaboy, is that meeting at 5:00pm?
the meeting starts at 4 today in the courthouse annex - looks like the Point Washington Historic District issue comes up at 5:35 (according to the agenda) -
Thanks for the link.;-) The Oaks at Eden, while being an important part, is a seperate issue and is on the agenda later at 6:20pm.
Okay Dave or Peaboy, what took place at the meeting? We are curious to know. Full report please.
How I wish that I could be there to attend this meeting! Good luck to all of you. Perhaps you should give each of the Commissioners a DVD copy of the cult environmental horror film, "Frogs," which was filmed at the Wesley Mansion/Eden. Just kidding.
The thing for all citizens groups to remember is that well reasoned and well referenced arguments and points are hard for elected officials to refute. Also, officials like for developers and interest groups to work together to reach their own compromise solutions. Perhaps you should propose that the developers, one of the County planners (to attend meetings), and several members of your group should work together to at least identify areas of concern and mitigation measures for addressing those concerns. When that happens, it becomes very difficult politically for the officials to disregard input from the public.
I also think it is critical for you to work with Commissioner Cindy Meadows and also with your Planning Director or the project manager. These are difficult endeavors, but when people get involved in a reasonable and well-intentioned way, the process DOES work for them. Good luck.
Requesting a report here too...I was there for the Historic PW part (wow, wasn't that smooth?) but had to bail out before the Oaks at Eden discussion.
Some diligent folks uncoverd a zoning issue with the property so the matter was tabled again until it can be straightened out. Seems there are 2 different zoning designations on 2 different parts of the property, part infill and part TND (Traditional Neighborhood Development).
Also the property is within 300 feet of a state-designated archeological sight of interest, so an extensive archeological survey will need to be conducted by the applicant.
Note to developers: it is much easier and profitable to work WITH the community rather than AGAINST the community.
I just heard a report of the meeting.
The short of it is that both parties were represented at the meeting. The developer, Tim Henderson(aka Hendco, aka Oaks of Eden, LLC) was represented by his attorney, and Pt Washington was represented by one attorney hired by a few Pt Wash residents, the newly formed Pt Washington Historic Society (or something like that), and about 60 concerned citizens, not all of whom are from Pt Washington.
The developer met with the residents of PW, but the two sides reached no compromise.
Apparently some new info arose yesterday afternoon, which shows the subject property to be zoned as two different types of zoning, one of which allows 2 units/acre and the other which allows up to 10units/ acre.
(oh, now they tell me. -- our gov't is a little whacked)
Anyway, the developer reduced the density by 2 lots which now brings them to just under 6 units per acre, and they reduced the height limits by 2 ft, from 40' to 38'. No one at the meeting thought that was enough.
Witnesses for Pt Washington included about four people who were well spoken. Ty Nunn, an owner showed the Commissioners the difference in densities through charts and graphs. Gourd Garden Randy spoke at length of the references in publications of Pt Washington being "historic." He also noted historical buildings, pointing out that one of the buildings was at one time the Cuchens Grocery (Roe Cuchens is one of the @sshole commissioners.). Foley, a local PW resident, spoke of all of the artifacts that can be found around the property. Van Ness Butler, of the well known Butler family, spoke at length, but began by cracking the serious tones of the meeting by stating that the only density in the area that came close to the developer's proposed density was the Church Cemetary located close by. He made special note that he and his brother Albert, bought 100 acers adjacent to Eden Gardens with plans to develope it. They spent money and invested time, but as time passed, they came to the conclusion that future genertations should be able to see the land as they saw it as children, raw and beautiful. They could not live, knowing that they destroyed the land, so they sold it to the State and it is now part of Eden Gardens. I hear his story was very moving.
The County tabled the issue until the meeting on Dec 13.
I understand that the Commissioners were admitting emails to the record for this case, which is the first time ever. So keep the emails going to all of the Commissioners.
see, prayer works!
I've been asked to report on the Historic PW portion of the meeting - the short and sweet of it is that Pat Blackshear brought it up, Scott Brannon (District 1) supported it, which I was glad to see as he is our commissioner, as did Cindy Meadows. There is to be more study done, but the proposal to move forward with the Historic Point Washington designation passed 5 - 0. Evidently there is no problem with it, and it was mentioned that it would make the jobs of the planning department and the commissioners much easier :clap_1:
Or, that's how it sounded from the next to the last row.
Not that it really matters, but Van Ness and Albert are cousins. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Just had a call from Cindy Meadows, who reported on the meeting. Sounds like it went very well and that Van Ness Butler did a great job. The historic overlay is wonderful and the timing extremely effective. When the County does this overlay, there should be a professional historic architect who can establish design criteria that serves as a performance standard that all developers must meet when properties are developed in the area. These design criteria are typically based on two things (or more): (1) The factors that charcterize the area as being historic and special, or other resources that contribute to same; and (2) The extent to which new development is compatible with existing historic resources and building charcter, yet clearly has not been an attempt to actually emulate the historic resource(s). Design standards for the protection of historic resources are usually very stringent. For example, the overlay could require that all new development must be evaluated by a recognized historic architect to determine whether it is compatible with the historic context of the area. The citizens group should request this of the planning department. Would be great if you can find some samples of historic overlay ordinances that work well in other areas. I would be willing to write a letter on this and even provide some sample ordinances, if you think it will help. Otherwise, I will remain a concerned observer.
FYI, two of the Commissioners are up for re-election soon...many letters should be written to them, lots of pressure brought to bear relative to this issue. Keep up the good fight! Wish I could have been there.
More great info Donna and a perfect reckoning of the meeting SmilingJoe and Kurt! Thanks you guys!!
It looks like things are progressing well for THPWA!! HOORAAHH!!!
The wrangling between residents of Point Washington and developers of the Oaks at Eden continued at the Nov. 22 meeting of the Walton Board of County Commissioners.
The residents say the overall height and density of the Oakds will upset the natural character of Point Washington. The BCC decided to continue the project to its Dec. 13 meeting to see if some of the issues can be resolved.
Developers eliminated two of the 29 proposed lots to bring the subdivision?s density down to 5.9 units per acre from 6.4. The density adjacent to the Oaks is 3.8 units per acre, Point Washington resident architect Ty Nunn said.
?The only thing that comes close to the Oaks density is the Point Washington cemetery,? Van Ness Butler Sr. said at the BCC meeting.
At a Nov. 17 meeting between the developer and residents, the developer made some concessions. They agreed to increase buffering to adjacent lots, reduce the height of two homes at the entrance to the subdivision to 32 feet and to install a privacy fence at the north and south borders of the property.
Developers want a maximum height of 38 feet, but residents feel that would be out of place in Point Washington, which is mostly one or one and a halfstory homes. Residents want the height capped at 32 feet.
The Walton Board of County Commissioners proposed giving Point Washington an historic overlay district to help preserve its character.
If approved, future development in Point Washington will come under tighter scrutiny.
?It imposes additional regulations on what type of development can go in there,? said Greg Scoville, process systems manager for the Walton County Planning Department.
The Planning Department is currently generating a map to define the boundaries of the district and will put it before the BCC at its Dec. 13 meeting for approval.
If it is approved, Scoville said a survey will be taken to see what structures in the district can be classified as historical and what type of developments would be compatible with Point Washington.
Currently, the Planning Department doesn?t have an historical overlay district in the Land Development Code. Scoville said the LDC will have to be amended. The Planning Department will look to surrounding counties to model the wording for the amendment.
?The idea is to preserve as much of the character of the area,? Scoville said. ?The district will look at development to see how it is compatible to the area or if the development will harm historical structures.?
Residents are fighting the developers of the Oaks at Eden. The overall height of the subdivision has residents worried. The Oaks will have homes at a maximum height of 38 feet. Residents of Point Washington feel the development would be out of place in a community where most of the homes are half that height.
The density also is a concern. Van Ness Butler, former Walton County Commissioner and a long time resident of Point Washington, has been quoted as saying the Point Washington Cemetery is the only thing compatible with the proposed density of the Oaks.
Benefits of Historic District Designation
Two historic districts were established in Tampa, Seminole Heights Historic District and Hampton Terrace Historic District. Below are some of the benefits associated with those two districts according to http://www.oldseminoleheights.com/historic.htm.
? Preserves and enhances neighborhood character
? Protects property investments and values
? Promotes restoration and revitalization
? Encourages pride of ownership
? Attracts homeowners who appreciate historic properties
? Encourages compatible infill construction
? Discourages demolition of historic properties
? Increases neighborhood visibility with city officials
? Property tax credits and abatements available for certain restoration projects
? Promotes and preserves our cultural and architectural heritage
? Preserves and protects an important piece of Tampa?s history
? Provides a unique sense of community
? Positions neighborhood to receive foundation grants
? Promotes awareness of neighborhood values
? Provides guidelines for compatible new construction
? Improves the quality of the neighborhood
Someone told me that the Oaks at Eden was scratched from today's CC meeting. Anyone know? I may go find out for myself in a minute, but thought I would check here first.
I didn't see The Oaks on the agenda; Pat Blackshear does have an item regarding the Point Washington Historic District mid-way through the meeting.
If you come for that, please also show your support for the request for land for the middle school. The students really need a proper facility, with a library, gym, art and music rooms and other components common to all other schools in Walton County.
Here's a link to Walton County, and the agenda is the top click in the left column:
I saw your link on the other page, and I visited that site last night, but all I see is:
"BCC Regular Meeting December 13, 2005" -- (no agenda).
EDIT, I did not realize it was a hyper link. Gotcha.
So did Tim pull his Oaks of Eden off the agenda until the issue calms down?
I got this by e-mail:
How do I get on the EMail list?
Separate names with a comma.