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SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,763
803
So if the banks have to eat all that $$$, will it make it that much more difficult for "average" people to get a mortgage?:dunno:

The banks will do whatever the Fed lets them get away with (the Fed is currently looking into engineering a way to clamp down on this crap--too late, as usual). A good deal of these toxic mortgages have been bundled and sold off to investors, foreigners, pension funds, hedge funds, insurance companies and even other banks--thereby spreading the risk around.

As these mortgages, in increasing numbers, start to "non-perform" (default) the investors will start demanding higher returns for the risk--which will translate into higher interest rates and in turn reduce the number of people who qualify. (Providing--this time--they actually tell the truth about their financial situation.)

Turning off the 'easy money' is a key element in deflating the RE whoopee cushion. The industry has been trying to keep the housing prices up with mortgages engineered to keep the monthly nut as low as possible. The mortgage-lenders' bag of tricks is pretty much empty, and folks aren't interested (or can't qualify for) the 40- and 50-year mortgages. Desperate builders and owners are now turning to self-financing just to unload their homes/condos...talk about jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire!
 
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SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,763
803
No, that will not be the case. Subprime mortgages and your "average" person mortgage are 2 different animals. ;-)

"Average" people mortgates meaning a mortgage where someone actually has BOTH the means and the inclination to repay it.
 
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redfisher

Beach Fanatic
Sep 11, 2005
374
37
Once again we've found a way to blame someone other than ourselves for our misgivings...Its not "me" that got me into this mess, its the mort. guy who didn't know I couldn't afford my property...he must be too blame...NO no no no, its the Fed and their "crap" that got me into this mess..Sure, there we go...WAIT wait wait, it must be the r/e agent-everybody knows their crooked...Finally, maybe its my fault...Maybe, I'm responsible?...Naaa...
 

SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,763
803
Once again we've found a way to blame someone other than ourselves for our misgivings...Its not "me" that got me into this mess, its the mort. guy who didn't know I couldn't afford my property...he must be too blame...NO no no no, its the Fed and their "crap" that got me into this mess..Sure, there we go...WAIT wait wait, it must be the r/e agent-everybody knows their crooked...Finally, maybe its my fault...Maybe, I'm responsible?...Naaa...


Many of the kids hatched in the post-Clever era have a genetic defect--they were born without the "personal responsibility" gene. It's no coincidence that the number of lawyers have increased over the past couple of decades as well.
 

Mango

SoWal Insider
Apr 7, 2006
9,699
1,368
New York/ Santa Rosa Beach
Once again we've found a way to blame someone other than ourselves for our misgivings...Its not "me" that got me into this mess, its the mort. guy who didn't know I couldn't afford my property...he must be too blame...NO no no no, its the Fed and their "crap" that got me into this mess..Sure, there we go...WAIT wait wait, it must be the r/e agent-everybody knows their crooked...Finally, maybe its my fault...Maybe, I'm responsible?...Naaa...

Very true. The reality is that some people did not want to listen to reason when it came to these "Toxic Mortgages" (Option ARMS). Personally as a Broker, I did not offer the product, and those people went somewhere else unfortunately. They were usually the ones who already had a $700-1000 BMW payment, credit card debt up the wazzoo, student loans etc.:blink:
They were the same type of people who took pre-payment penalties on mortgages, rates went down, and then they said they didn't know what they were really getting into to the Bank asking to let them out of it.
 

SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,763
803
All the more reason to be wary of folks who pass themselves off as "professionals" in their fields when it comes to putting your money on the line.

It's appalling how many bankers pushed their "dirty lending work" on to unscrupulous brokers; and how many Realtors and precon salespeople represented themselves as "real estate investment advisors"--just check out some of the wording on those websites :shock:.

Neither boiler-room mortgage brokers, nor Realtors, nor pre-con salespeople have a fiduciary duty to their clients (lack of ethics doesn't hold up in court). The people who put their money and trust in these "professionals" will pay dearly. When it comes to investing and your money...always, always, always be a cynic.

When this real estate fiasco finally plays itself out and the smoke clears...used car dealers will find they've moved up a couple of notches from the bottom of the heap.

(PS: Kudos to Mango and others who played a clean game.)
 
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Mango

SoWal Insider
Apr 7, 2006
9,699
1,368
New York/ Santa Rosa Beach
All the more reason to be wary of folks who pass themselves off as "professionals" in their fields when it comes to putting your money on the line.

It's appalling how many bankers pushed their "dirty lending work" on to unscrupulous brokers; and how many Realtors and precon salespeople represented themselves as "real estate investment advisors"--just check out some of the wording on those websites :shock:.

Neither boiler-room mortgage brokers, nor Realtors, nor pre-con salespeople have a fiduciary duty to their clients (lack of ethics doesn't hold up in court). The people who put their money and trust in these "professionals" will pay dearly. When it comes to investing and your money...always, always, always be a cynic.

When this real estate fiasco finally plays itself out and the smoke clears...used car dealers will find they've moved up a couple of notches from the bottom of the heap.

(PS: Kudos to Mango and others who played a clean game.)

Not having some responsibility as a mortgage broker or Banker is not entirely true, and in some States, especially New York, monitoring by the State Banking Depts is quite strict. We are audited frequently for compliance with State laws, especially predatory Lending. The FEDS do look for Bankers and Brokers who used these types of products consistently due to their no income check feature. I have to hold my files for 5 years even after being audited by NY.

I wouldn't necessarily say that the banks pushed their dirty work on Brokers. They offered the product on a retail level as well with the same guidelines as they offered to Brokers (wholesale) Wholesale is a necessary evil for Banks as more people tend to go to mortgage brokers for more options, and service levels.
If the product was used correctly, it offered benefits.

The product is used correctly by people who know how to handle money, get large bonuses, or for example lawyers who may be expecting a large case settlement etc. Selling another property, yadda, yadda.
The people who used it correctly were financially savvy, and had the ability to pay down the mortgage when rates increased and usually had low Loan to values. Also, the index did not change drastically for years, and it was based on the lagging average of the index.

The big mistake they made with the product was that it usually had a no income verification/no asset check feature to it. They also in my opinion offered too high a loan to value especially for investment properties, and they did not differentiate second home from primary residence.
It's also a complicated product to understand for the average consumer as they touted start rates of 1 and 2%, and then 3 different options of how to pay the loan.

Hell, I had to read it several times to understand it, and learn how to calculate the minumum payment:blink: and figure out when negative amortization occurred.

The article is eye opening, however, the examples of people who had 5% fixed rates refinancing into these OPtion ARMS is pure journalistic zealousness. I don't know many people who would have been that naive.

The people I do feel somehwat sorry for are ethnic groups who tended to go to a Broker or officer of the same ethinc background, and what I found when I worked for the banks and visitied and monitored these Brokers, was that they cheated their own people by putting them in A-minus subrpime loans getting 3 points on the back end, and then charging points on the front:eek:
Most of these people could have qualified for standard FNMA type mortgages and instead were placed in these hihger priced loans. This has been going on for years, and probably will continue and is not limted to the mortgage or real estate business.

I guess bottom line is that there are always going to be people who want to live beyond their means and will seek out ways to finance their lifestyles. Human nature, we can't change it.:dunno:
 

SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,763
803
I guess bottom line is that there are always going to be people who want to live beyond their means and will seek out ways to finance their lifestyles. Human nature, we can't change it.:dunno:

... just as "drunks, compulsive gamblers, and junkies" need their "bartenders, blackjack dealers, and pushers."
 

SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,763
803
Hell, I had to read it several times to understand it, and learn how to calculate the minumum payment:blink: and figure out when negative amortization occurred.

And how do you think the "boiler room mortgage broker" who dropped out of high school--and found his job posted on a hand-written sign nailed to telephone pole--explained it to the 30-something GM factory worker with 2 kids trying to get his family a roof over their head because (the realtor told him) "he'd better jump into a house now before he was priced out of the market forever?"
 
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