Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. Reggie Gaskins

    Reggie Gaskins Beach Lover

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    Discussing important community topics was the genesis of this thread. By design, Faulty positions and unsupportable claims would theoretically be easily dismissed and discarded, on both sides of CU.

    Alternate opinions and voices would be unconditionally heard, and respected, with the assumption of rational reasoning and honest representation of facts.

    The author didn’t foresee the derailing of legitimate reasoning and endless distraction by those not able to comprehend reality. Nor the same who refuse to respect or acknowledge current laws and culture. Not to mention the irrational frequent posting of some parallel fantasy universe that entitles the public to private assets gained from individual effort.

    I apologize for all of the wasted posts that belong on a remedial political fiction thread.
     
  2. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Fbb, good work on the research! You have skills.

    I tend to agree with you about anonymous posters using imaginary names posting divisive rhetoric but wait how do I know you are you :)
     
  3. Stone Cold J

    Stone Cold J Beach Lover

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    Thank you for confirming that the only “authority” Walton County BCC has is to request to the court (judicial branch) to determine recreational customary use IF the BCC can PROVE that recreational customary use (in particular the BCC request for unlimited access by unlimited tourists with unlimited beach equipment to occupy private property AGAINST the will of the property owner) is ANCIENT, REASONABLE, WITHOUT INTERUPTION, and WITHOUT DISPUTE.

    You are correct, the BCC has the "authority to request" not the "authority to determine".

    Also thank you also for providing your opinion that is issue is without dispute. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, even if you are the only one in Walton County that has that opinion.
     
  4. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Reggie, good job with keeping my name out of your post and speaking in generalities. I prefer to respect the Judicial system and let the court decide the facts. Btw double good job on the apology :). Maybe this will be my last post...
     
  5. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Scj, you are very welcome! I much appreciate respect and civility.

    However you changed the words in the Statue which read "seek". In order to seek affirmation the government entity must "adopt a formal notice of intent to affirm customary use". Therefore the affirmation process will consider whether or not public recreational use occurred on the beach prior to the lawsuit. In other words a dispute caused by the affirmation process is moot. Both sides present evidence. One side wins. The other side appeals. It just seems silly that compromise is not the better path! These things happen when we lose our ability to be respectful and civil...
     
  6. Dave Rauschkolb

    Dave Rauschkolb Beach Fanatic

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  7. Alex Miles

    Alex Miles Beach Comber

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    Walton County Ideas for Visioning and Quality of Life (closed Facebook group)
    RULE #2: Content or screenshots of content may not be "reproduced or distributed outside of this group without express permission"

    Do the rules apply to all members?
    Hmmm...Did a couple of previous posts just get deleted from this forum thread? I wonder why.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  8. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

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    Sometimes the truth is just plain inconvenient.
     
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  9. Alex Miles

    Alex Miles Beach Comber

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    So are depositions.
     
  10. DanaMarie

    DanaMarie Beach Comber

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    Mputnal,
    There it is. The personal attack. I knew you’d resort to personal attack, because that's what you do when you have no facts to fall back on. I quoted two statements you made, took them to a logical conclusion, and instead of responding with a logical answer you attacked me. You may think I’m in the Twilight Zone, but just because you don’t understand the basic rules of logic doesn’t mean you should attack others. Your statements are delusional. You must have had too many psilocybin mushrooms in your Thanksgiving green bean casserole.

    Sincerely, Rod Serling
     
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  11. DanaMarie

    DanaMarie Beach Comber

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    Getting rid of the vendors, or at least the ghost chairs, would be a huge step in the right direction.
     
  12. kayti elliott

    kayti elliott Beach Lover

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    There are "very special" people on this forum.
     
  13. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    DanaMarie, my apologies to you. If I had said that your logic was flawed would that have been better? Of course not so I chose to use the power brokers own words who brought up the twilight zone type of reasoning because it is funny. I always try to lighten up the mood. My mistake and very sorry I hurt your feelings.

    Why do you believe only in one narrow set of facts? Truth. Reality. Justice. Happiness. Purpose. Democracy. Are not these all part of reasoning? Are these not the elements of LLH that our founders applied to the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution? We have been beat over the head with one set of facts regarding exclusion in property rights but the property we are talking about has always been shared enjoyment IMO. Alex Miles even admits that it is not normal real estate. Reggie Gaskins even admits that the beach sand has always been shared. Who really owns shoreline sand that moves seaward then landward then up and down the beach? What about the people who have generations of history here that witnessed public recreational use up and down the beach? What about those facts? People with money and power have access to our political system that those in the working class and middle class do not have so why is that not a fact? Do you really not see the difference in an individual vote versus abuse of power? I understand the facts and principles of property law but it is not as cut and dry as you would like to believe. I will never understand why people like you and I have to resort to personal attacks. Yes you attacked me much worse. Own it.
     
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  14. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    DanaMarie, Logic is the "science" of the "principles" of "reasoning". Science is a formal demonstration of natural laws. Principles is plural meaning there are multiple facts from different perspectives. Reasoning is sense which includes history, intelligent thought, knowledge and an ability to listen and learn. Humans have emotion which conflicts with logic. Neither of us are perfect so I say we live and let live and just try to get along which is the opposite of exclusion. My sense tells me that is the better way toward peace and harmony...
     
  15. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    AlexMiles, You do know that the poster can delete their own post right? Reggie may have decided to delete his post that pooh poohed compromise as an option for these issues. Surely you are not insinuating that the moderators have strict rules of engagement on this forum :)
     
  16. Dave Rauschkolb

    Dave Rauschkolb Beach Fanatic

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    A very researched, reasoned, relevant and important post.
     
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  17. Stone Cold J

    Stone Cold J Beach Lover

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    FORCED occupation of private property of unlimited people and unlimited equipment AGAINST the will of the property owner has NEVER been permitted in the State of Florida. Never ever.
     
  18. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Scj, my mistake on your civility. Using a trigger word like "forced" in bold caps along with the other bold caps has only one purpose and it is not civility. Your purpose here is to trigger an emotional reaction. Does that make you feel good about anything I wonder? I proved to you using the Statue that you posted that the local government entity had authority to "adopt" and "notify" their position of customary use. The lawsuit is an "affirmation" process where bpo's are given the opportunity to have a voice in the matter. The court must affirm or deny the county's declaration of customary use. If affirmed it has been said by the power brokers that they will appeal to the Supreme Court. So where is the force? Using forced occupation is really low on your part. The force you are talking about must exist in the twilight zone :)
     
  19. Stone Cold J

    Stone Cold J Beach Lover

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    An ordinance that permits unlimited people and unlimited equipment AGAINST the will of the property owner is FORCED occupation. It is illegal in the State of Florida for a local Government Entity to enforce such an ordinance without judicial approval.

    The lawsuit is an opportunity for the BCC to PROVE that this occupation of private property against the will of the property owner in the State of Florida is Ancient, Reasonable, Without Interruption, and Without Dispute. If they cannot PROVE those 4 criteria then forced occupation will continued to be not allowed in the State of Florida.

    Maybe Judge Green will change that and for the first time in the State of Florida history give judicial approval for occupation of private property against the will of the property owner so the BCC can pursue billions of tourists dollars?

    If the BCC can make billions of tourists dollars (read the 2016 BCC minutes), why not just buy property and build more public beaches with parking and bathrooms instead of trying to take it away from the legally deeded property owners?
     
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  20. Kurt Lischka

    Kurt Lischka Admin Staff Member

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    Only honest and respectful discussion is OK on this forum. Personal attacks are not allowed. This topic is important to our community but lines have been crossed on this thread. It will be locked for a time to allow reflection of everyone involved.

    If our simple rules can't be followed then customary use discussion on this forum will end permanently.
     

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