Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. DanaMarie

    DanaMarie Beach Comber

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    Mputnal, you asked me “who has the majority of influence on the politicians?” You followed with the example of how quickly the bill got passed in the Florida Legislature. I have a question for you: Who had the power over the local politicians (BCC) to convince them to pass the ordinance that attempted to remove private property rights, which started the customary issue dispute?
     
  2. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    DanaMarie, good question. The people who vote are supposed to have the power over the local politicians. Our voice is in the vote, attending local government meetings, communicating with our commissioners and listening to our neighbors. When we give up our voice to those who believe they know what is best for you and me well you an me loses our voice and democracy fails. Okay now I understand that we have beach overcrowding and yes I agree that they allowed too much development. Where we disagree is on whether the coastal sandy beach is for private exclusive use or public recreational use. Since we do not agree and there was no compromise the BCC had no choice but to declare public recreational use. So, now those with power pushed a bill through the legislature that required the lawsuit. I believe the lawsuit became necessary when bpo's changed their mind from sharing to excluding. I think we have a different perspective. You and I can vote but we do not have any power to control that legislative branch like those with elite power in passing that bill. There was no taking by the BCC IF these beaches have been "used" for public recreational use at all which they have. In addition the declaration of public recreational use does not restrict or remove the right for bfo's to enjoy the beach ONLY that they can not exclude others from enjoying the beach. I am not trying to convince you of anything other than we should keep communicating with respect and find solutions and compromises that work for our community instead of lawsuits but in this case the lawsuit is the only way to determine if public recreational use existed on the coastal sandy shoreline or if private exclusive enjoyment existed. Since bpo's no longer want to share the enjoyment of the beach this lawsuit had to happen. I think it is time to stop blaming each other and have confidence in our Justice System...
     
  3. DanaMarie

    DanaMarie Beach Comber

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  4. DanaMarie

    DanaMarie Beach Comber

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    mputnal, so you are saying The People had the power over the local politicians to force the BCC to pass the ordinance. Is that accurate?
     
  5. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Yes I think the BCC were listening to their constituents. The people who elected them. Force is not the right word though.
     
  6. bob1

    bob1 Beach Lover

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    Just so you know, every time you call someone a socialist we all know you are a fox brainwash victim with no ability to think for yourself.

    People laugh at you.
     
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  7. Poppaj

    Poppaj SoWal Insider

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    If a failure is what erodes your confidence I find it surprising you haven’t totally rejected capitalism.:lol:
     
  8. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Scj, I think those with power created the issues that we now have. Too much development. Yes. Too many exclusive view blocking mansions on the beach. Yes. Public recreational Use is a fact. Property rights require due process. The lawsuit allows bpo's to dispute and the people to claim public recreational use. Who do you think are the winners in the end?
     
  9. stone packard

    stone packard Beach Lover

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    I'm laughing at you. I'm now retired, but have always worked in the private sector as a business owner or partner. I'm happy to say my life has been satisfying. I call people socialissts who espouse socialist ideas. I'm a capitalist and I'm not ashamed of it..

    And "PapaJ", why would I reject capitalism? Capitalism has been very good to me and my family. Your suggestion that capitalism is a failure is laughable. Has the wealthy restaurant owner who leads your movement prospered because of socialism? I don't think so. If you can sell screwdrivers and bloody marys at a huge profit, my hat is off to you.
     
  10. Poppaj

    Poppaj SoWal Insider

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    I didn’t suggest capitalism is a failure.
     
  11. Stone Cold J

    Stone Cold J Beach Lover

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    mp, you state Property rights require due process. What does that mean? Does that mean all property purchased since Florida became a State requires due process or only BPO property? Is that the same for all BPO property in the State of Florida or only Walton County?

    You also did not answer the question, do you think this issue is without dispute?
     
  12. DanaMarie

    DanaMarie Beach Comber

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  13. DanaMarie

    DanaMarie Beach Comber

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    mputnal, I asked “if The People had the power over the local politicians to force the BCC to pass the ordinance.” You said “Yes I think the BCC were listening to their constituents. The people who elected them. Force is not the right word though.” So, it was The People who wielded the power, and started the customary use issue. It was The People who convinced the BCC to enact an ordinance that attempted to take away private property rights without due process. Sounds like per your own reasoning you should be accusing The People of abuse of power, not your imaginary power brokers or those you say have elite wealth.
     
  14. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    DanaMarie, Your last post suggest that you have officially entered into the twilight zone where people have no shadows :) I tried to explain a different perspective on the issue but apparently you are indoctrinated by imaginary people. I am not surprised. People with no shadow are not interested in reality is all I can figure...
     
  15. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Scj, what part of due process do you not understand? I will try to explain again. The County has the authority to declare public recreational use if that is what their constituents believe to be the reality of how the beaches have been used in the past which is the reality. Bpo's have the right to due process which allows them to dispute public recreational use and I assume must deny sharing the beaches by claiming they enjoyed exclusive private use in the past. Even your group admits they shared the beach in the past which confirms public recreational use so I admit it is all a little confusing. Of course they could have compromised and made some real progress toward a happy community but instead this is now a lawsuit where there will be winners and losers and a lot of unhappy people. The court will rule. The losers probably take it to a higher court. The community is torn apart. If elite power wins at least a few people will be happy at the expense of thousands. That should answer your question. I have found that if you read slower it helps to listen :)
     
  16. Stone Cold J

    Stone Cold J Beach Lover

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    According to the State of Florida, Walton County BCC DOES NOT have the authority to declare recreational customary use. It is a judicial process (and the BCC is not part of the judicial branch).

    The BCC can request to the court (judicial branch) to determine recreational customary use IF the BCC can PROVE that recreational customary use (in particular the BCC request for unlimited access by unlimited tourists with unlimited beach equipment to occupy private property AGAINST the will of the property owner) is ANCIENT, REASONABLE, WITHOUT INTERUPTION, and WITHOUT DISPUTE.

    mputnal, Do you think do you think this issue is without dispute as claimed in the BCC lawsuit?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
  17. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Scj, Asked and answered more than once. Also you are wrong about the BCC authority to declare public recreational use. The court will determine if that declaration was correct based on use. I believe it is. You believe it is not. Here we go around the mulberry bush...again...and again...
     
  18. Stone Cold J

    Stone Cold J Beach Lover

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    mputnal post #2143 "Also you are wrong about the BCC authority to declare public recreational use"

    The State of Florida in Statute 163.035, specifically states that the judicial branch has the authority and that a governmental entity (AKA BCC) does NOT have the authority to declare public recreational use.

    Can you please reference a State of Florida statute or other sources (other than personal opinion) which states the BCC does have this authority?

    mputnal, Do you think do you think this issue is without dispute as claimed in the BCC lawsuit?
     
  19. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    #2139 DanaMarie, remember CU many believers do not even believe the State of Florida legal coastal property boundary definitions
    #1994 FS"177.28 Legal significance of the mean high-water line." Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    CU believers can not even list the ancient English common law custom criteria much less define the 4 to 7 or more legal criteria.
    #471 "But wait!" David Theriaque September 2018 presentation cites English criteria Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    #285 Dave Theriaque's, Walton's lead $425/hr land use attorney, CU criteria list Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    #1202 "The repeated post is not true, unless there are alternative facts to the contrary." There have been none. Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    #2128 "There was no taking by the BCC IF these beaches have been "used" for public recreational use at all which they have." Which ancient English CU criteria defines public CU "use" of private property? The CU believer's defined criteria; if you can define more than one? Sir William Blackstone's 1700's COMMENTARIES ON THE LAWS OF ENGLAND common law multiple historical criteria?, Walton's $425/hr CU attorney Theriaque's 7 Oregon criteria, Tiffany Real Property law 7 CU criteria (taken from 1700's Blackstone's Commentaries)? FL court CU 4 criteria (truncated from Tiffany 7 criteria)? FS163.035 4 criteria? If CU believers can list any legal CU criteria, can you define the CU criteria? Is "ancient" since anyone alive today can remember? Since photographs were invented?

    CU believers should read my posts (#2094) slower (as suggested by mputnal) to comprehend; I do not have to try to link CU believers to anything. I just post their words #2088 "... Equal Distribution of Resources is the hope and dreams of this great Country." I only list references from experts on "Equal Distribution of Resources" and the reader can draw their own conclusions. Egalitarianism and the "Envy Test" is the only reference I made to "Equal Distribution of Resources". Beside it's only math - right!? Your valuable deeded beach property you pay taxes on is mine and my property I have and pay taxes on is mine. 1+1=MINE for CU and not BPO's right to choose quiet uninterrupted enjoyment or not.

    #10 Oldie but Goodie reminder. "Unfortunately, no customary use facts or rational reason to the contrary will persuade ..." Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy Other FoF Oldies Search Results | SoWal Forum - South Walton Florida
    Everyone can have an opinion; but not everyone can have a credible opinion unless you have some facts or verifiable information.

    Are the anonymous "imaginary people" referred to by some (and thier incredible-facts) Pappaj, bob1, leeboy, 30A Skunkape, EZ4144, jodiFL, James Bentwood? Or Jim Tucker, bob bob, Pam Hicks, Lake View Too, Dawn, MRBS, Duchess, Jenksy, L.C. Bane, buster, Leader of the Banned, Emerald Drifter, ShallowsNole too?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2019
  20. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Scj, Objection. question asks for an opinion. Opinions are like belly buttons. Everyone has one :)

    I have read the statue. The government entity has authority to seek Judicial affirmation of Customary Use. Last I heard that is what the lawsuit is for.
    My "opinion" is that the beaches have been "used" for public recreational use without dispute since the beginning. In addition I do believe the court will allow arguments regarding whether or not there can be private ownership of the coastal sandy shoreline which is constantly moving and does not stay in one place. There is a good chance that the court will decide that coastal sandy shoreline is owned by the State of Florida. If that is proven this Statue will not apply. There are many cards in the deck. Stay tuned...
     

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