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mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,188
569
Why does this issue need to be politicized? Why call people socialist? Is our representative democracy in trouble because people want fair and equal distribution of resources or because people just want something for nothing (entitlements)? We all should check our motives at the door. I don't buy either side of the great big political divide. We are all human. We are all Americans. We are all "part" of a community. We all live and die the same way biologically. The constant ranting about who is right and why is nothing but wasted time because we could be doing something productive like finding ways to share our resources with a sense of good will. Why is that so hard? The shaming and the name calling needs to stop. It serves no good purpose. A happy community is a happy life...
 

Stone Cold J

Beach Lover
Jun 6, 2019
150
171
SRB
Let me try again with the post from #979

Can we find one item to discuss that might have common agreement?

What about - Remove 3rd Party Chair Vendors from Regional Beaches Memorial Day to Labor Day and use only TDC ATTENDED chair vendor points and limit the number of TDC rentals available. Rent by the hour and not the day and don't set up equipment until people are at the beach and remove the beach equipment (chairs/umbrellas) when people leave.

How about it Emerald Drifter, Truman, Reggie, Bob, Dave FBB, Auburn Fan, mputnal, others?

Is there ANYTHING we might all agree and support?
 

outofadream

Beach Fanatic
Apr 1, 2008
294
68
Let me try again with the post from #979

Can we find one item to discuss that might have common agreement?

What about - Remove 3rd Party Chair Vendors from Regional Beaches Memorial Day to Labor Day and use only TDC ATTENDED chair vendor points and limit the number of TDC rentals available. Rent by the hour and not the day and don't set up equipment until people are at the beach and remove the beach equipment (chairs/umbrellas) when people leave.

How about it Emerald Drifter, Truman, Reggie, Bob, Dave FBB, Auburn Fan, mputnal, others?

Is there ANYTHING we might all agree and support?
I support everything you said about beach chair vendors. The fact that they have been able to get away with setting up dozens of beach chairs and umbrellas that never get rented has contributed to the beachfront owners issues. The vendors force people to Set up east and west in front of the beachfront owners homes. Additionally the beach chair vendors are very aggressive if you dare to set up a chair near any of their set up’s. I was personally bullied a few weeks ago in Blue Mountain Beach..where I live..when I placed my chair next to a vendor set up
 

Stone Cold J

Beach Lover
Jun 6, 2019
150
171
SRB
outofadream, thank you very much for your feedback. Anyone else? Does this make sense? Is this something the BCC should implement?
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,188
569
Of course there is always common ground and that is my point in this discussion. Check the idealogical or political agenda at the door then come to the round table to discuss the relevant issues. Beach equipment vending, density, trash, beach behavior and how to share the beach equally and fairly should be the relevant issues. However now we have a lawsuit that only serves to delay the process of these issues being solved. If one side is hell bent on CU and the other side is hell bent on property rights then all we are doing is fighting about who is right. Throw in the political stuff and it now becomes about who is wrong and why and of course all the name calling from both sides. Property rights supporters even suggests that it is un-American to believe in anything other than than Constitutional Rights. CU supporters even suggest that it is in-human to believe in anything except Human Rights. Both sides are hypocritical. I say that the two sides need to stop the name calling and mediate. I get that is hard to do when "feelings" are hurt but in my humble opinion I believe that the BFO's should be the first ones to step up to the plate and give up something as they watch their exclusive sunsets from their building that blocks those sunsets from others and damaged a fragile ecosystem. The CU supporters need to stop ridiculing and shaming well anyone and sit down at the table and listen because BFO's have legitimate complaints. The 30A legacy no matter the definition is gone forever. Accept it. Move on with the next legacy...
 

Stone Cold J

Beach Lover
Jun 6, 2019
150
171
SRB
Beach equipment vending, density, trash, beach behavior and how to share the beach equally and fairly should be the relevant issues.

mputnal, why wait 10 years to do anything if we can make progress on common ground on something that will make a short term difference? According the FBFA Lawyer, the BCC lawsuit against BPO's could be in the court for 10 years or longer. We should not wait 10 years to address things we can change today that does not violate perceived Federal or State Constitutional Rights (Judge Green will rule if the BCC lawsuit violates State or Federal Property Rights, but I am sure both sides will appeal what ever decision he makes to the next higher court). I like your list. I think (but could be wrong) beach equipment vending might be the one with the most common ground and something that the BCC could implement at the next meeting (if full support and requested by local citizens),

Does a complete ban effective Memorial Day 2020 of 3rd party beach vendors on Public Beach from Memorial Day through Labor Day each year and having TDC provide attended chair service during this period (which may also could be very beneficial with density, trash, and beach behavior) have the support from the various groups?

Is Beach Equipment Vending something we can all agree and have the BCC take action?
 
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Reggie Gaskins

Beach Lover
Oct 4, 2018
153
259
58
Blue Mountain Beach
So, yes, beach chair vendor rules reform is obviously quickest relief, evidenced hundreds of times in this thread. Or, The county could buy more beach AND ACTUALLY ALLOW PUBLIC TO USE IT. Yet, FBFA, has not proposed either of these to immediately relieve this pressure. Hmmmmm, that would open up miles of beach, that's what they want, right? Or is it?

Let's be careful, however, in our desire for fix, to not come from the wrong premise. Facts:

BPO's Have been aggressively sued by county, costing millions $$$
BPO's Have been publicly aggressively besmirched by CU agitators
County is not fixing the root cause deficiency in leadership
Fla Legislature just enacted Florida Bill of Property Rights.

Before we get carried away with only one side giving up so much ground, a new development shines light on the future of this case. This is a new baseline from which Judge Green must start.

Sunday morning education:

According to government watch, citizen advocates: Florida Coastal Property Rights, Florida property owners have reason to celebrate

PROPERTY OWNER BILL OF RIGHTS
CHAPTER 2019-155
House Bill 1159

Your rights and protections include:
1. The right to acquire, possess, and protect your property.
2. The right to use and enjoy your property.
3. The right to exclude others from your property.
4. The right to dispose of your property.
5. The right to due process.
6. The right to just compensation for property taken for a public purpose.
7. The right to relief, or payment of compensation, when a new law, rule, regulation, or ordinance of the state or a political entity unfairly affects your property.

Section 4. This act shall take effect July 1, 2019. Approved by the Governor June 26, 2019. Filed in Office Secretary of State June 26, 2019

Ridiculous!?! Not much....
 
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mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,188
569
Very interesting response Reggie. Very predictable. You are certainly good at educating us on property rights. I believe we got it. Is it possible to learn something else or is that all there is...
 

Reggie Gaskins

Beach Lover
Oct 4, 2018
153
259
58
Blue Mountain Beach
Very interesting response Reggie. Very predictable. You are certainly good at educating us on property rights. I believe we got it. Is it possible to learn something else or is that all there is...

If you follow the logic and reality of this thread, you’ll realize the extreme flaw in the normal CU discussion. Property law is a foundational concept of our civilized existence. CU is not even a thing. In constitutional law. Yet, people want to START by assuming CU concept, when it is merely a fringe idea.

It’s not that property law vs CU is the argument, That’s what agitators are framing. It’s that property law exists and evidenced by post above, is the law of the land. The solution to beach overcrowding are many. We need to START there.

It’s not property law vs CU. It’s that county policy has failed the citizens and visitors, by not planning for the volume. Solutions include

Vendor rules
Beach purchases
Parking/facilities planning
Private beach access with permission

CU is waaaaay down the list on readable and reasonable solutions. Let’s start there. THAT is reality.

I take issue with starting with legal property owners needing to give something up to start this process.

I do NOT, however, feel compromise is not necessary. But I’m repeating myself.
 

Stone Cold J

Beach Lover
Jun 6, 2019
150
171
SRB
Is it possible to learn something else or is that all there is...

mputnal, I absolutely hope there is something else that we can learn, and that is how to REDUCE the number of tourists. I know that is not a popular topic among those building Mega Rentals, making millions by having the BCC change our long term development plans to destroy wetlands and increase housing density, or those business spending millions of dollars to expand their restaurants and stores.

WE ARE NOT ALONE IN THE TOURIST DENSITY PROBLEM! Look at the MSN article yesterday about the tourists in Venice in the link below

Morning Coffee Results in a $1,000 Fine and Expulsion From Venice

"Venice, which for decades has been inundated with tourists from all over the world eager to see its unique architecture and experience its lifestyle, has struggled with overtourism. As for other popular destinations, the crowds have been both a blessing, bringing in much-needed revenue, and a curse, invading every inch of public space.

As far back as 1987, the local authorities capped the number of tour buses carrying day-trippers into the city. But a new wave of tourism fueled by cheap airline fares has not made things easier, and Venice has taken strict measures to address the problem. New rules include fines for urinating in public, wearing indecent clothing and eating in public places other that restaurants and cafes.

The struggle echoed that of Rome, where the authorities have imposed heavy fines and added officers to stop people from wading into the city’s famous fountains. At the height of a heat wave in Europe last summer, two people skinny-dipped in the fountain at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, prompting a police hunt for the culprits.

Matteo Salvini, the country’s hard-line interior minister, called the men “idiots,” telling them “Italy isn’t their bathroom.”

The largest, most visible symbols of the onslaught of tourists on Venice’s canals have been cruise ships that carry hundreds of people into the heart of the historic center. Campaigners pushed through new regulations last year to divert the behemoths to a passenger port on the mainland, farther from the city’s fragile lagoon.

But on a recent Sunday morning, a cruise ship plowed into a smaller tour boat and a wharf on a canal, injuring four people. Critics said the accident highlighted the need for regulation.

“Venice must be respected, and the rude people who think they can come to the city and do whatever they want must understand that, thanks to the girls and boys of the local police, they will be taken, sanctioned and removed,” Luigi Brugnaro, the mayor of Venice, said in a statement.

30A is not alone having more tourists than can be managed! Nearly every major tourist spot in the world is experiencing the same thing. We CANNOT let the BCC to promote a free for all! We MUST figure out soon how to REDUCE the number of tourists before we do even more damage.

We must stop the power brokers who want to make millions of dollars at our expense by exploiting and destroying our unique ecosystem!


Yes, I certainly hope we can learn something else before it is too late...
 
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