Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DanaMarie

    DanaMarie Beach Comber

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Point Washington
    I agree with Jim Tucker that the horse is out of the barn. IMO that’s what’s caused so much of the current overcrowding. But it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to prevent future unbridled growth. If CU wins then all of the developers can rightfully tell buyers, and buyers can tell renters, that they have the legal right to use all of the beach areas, not just those that are public. The County, realtors, and other local businesses can advertise the same. We’ll be further encouraging even more overcrowding. Maybe we don’t have to control beach density with physical barriers. Controlling capacity would be a step in the right direction. I agree with bob1 that if the County and the developers have their way, the last 20 years are going to look like nothing compared to the next 20 years. We can’t do anything about the last 20 years, but we should try to do something about the next 20 years. The more tourists, the more local businesses. The more local businesses, the greater the need for housing and infrastructure (schools, fire, police, etc.) for locals who work in those businesses. It’s a vicious cycle and I think CU will make it worse.
     
  2. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2017
    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach
    Ok mputnal lets use some linear thinking. #2197 ‘I think the word is "limit".’ What happens after the State Park limit is exceeded? The Parks have the right to exclude the public!? Why does the State of Florida have the right to exclude and private individuals who had title to the same beach front previously did not? What is different about the beachfront title and bundle of rights? What facts or law do you have to offer? I do not need to bail you out (sarcasm). We have heard the class warfare conspiracies and beliefs before.

    “The only thing different [before FS163.035] is the designation of who is the defendant and who is the plant(i)ff.” That’s an important distinction! The Plaintiff has the Burden of proof to show ancient English common law CU is superior to American Constitutional individual property rights. The Defendant (BPOs) do not have to prove private property is private with all Constitutional bundle of rights. That is the status quo today. The Walton BCC are suing 4,671 BPOs to EXCLUDE their CHOICE to have Constitutional quiet, uninterrupted, enjoyment of their private property and are having to spend tens of thousands of their own money to Defend their rights to CHOOSE.

    Jim Tucker if the State of Florida can “limit” public access by charging fees, density, vehicle access, and pets; why can’t individual BPOs choose to have quiet, uninterrupted, use and enjoyment of the property they pay taxes on (not the public)?

    I’m guessing bob1 is not moving from the area and neither are 1,193 BPO parcel owners; with the lawful BPO bundle of rights they have had since 1776 and today as recognized by the 2015 Sherriff’s trespass enforcement SOP.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2019
  3. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    188
    Fbb, I love the entertainment value you bring to this forum. I am surprised I have to explain the difference in LIMIT and EXCLUDE. Guess which one of those words allow you to enjoy a desert or to not enjoy a desert? I would rather eat a small piece of pecan pie than none at all at Thanksgiving but at least my doctor agrees with you and says to exclude the pies :). If the park has a limit on how many people can enjoy the park then I trust them with that power. You however I do not because you are mad as a hatter at having to share the beach enjoyment. I know for a fact that you are not very "agreeable". Just kidding you. You could be a very happy person but I have not seen that side yet...

    I have read many of the documents of evidence that the BCC has included in the affirmation process. Neither you or I know what the good Judge will do but if he throws out all those documents I think he would have to answer to a higher court. The BCC does not have to prove which laws are superior only the evidence to support the declaration of public customary recreational use is ancient, uninterrupted, reasonable and without dispute. Easy peasy. Just kidding you again. Nothing is cheap or easy in a court of law.

    Jim I would like to answer that question. State Parks cost money to maintain so Fbb please share (I know that is a bad word for you) with us how you maintain the beach sand. Also, Remember that one of your associates stated that the beach sand is not Realestate. Do you agree or disagree?

    If you believe that something happened in 1776 that gave you exclusive enjoyment of beach sand then I have some land down in Mexico that I would like to sell you. If you were living in 1776 and were female or black or Native American where were was that bundle of rights?!? Or maybe I have an infected blanket that I will sell you...no I will give you the blanket :). You sound like an adult white male that has enjoyed way more entitlement than you deserve. I know that because I am one also. I will not assume that you have not worked hard in your life for the things you want but there are many people who have worked hard and are not rewarded equally with the same effort. It is a fact...
     
  4. bob1

    bob1 Beach Lover

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2010
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    14
    Well you got to control the planning commission and the BCC - the business and development people own it. And then you control the TDC and can sepnd money on something other than advertising. There are state laws that specify how you spend tourist tax dollars but you can bend funds how you want if you have the power.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  5. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    188
    DanaMarie, I agree with you completely about over-development and the problems it is causing. It is a reasonable cause for beach over crowding but I would not agree with customary use as being a contributory factor. If you follow the money it will take you straight toward the influences that big developers have over the system. I will stand with you on this issue. However I do not see in any possible way that customary use is a factor. People have always loved and enjoy the beach and always will. I owe it to future generations of my family and friends to stand up for public recreational use of these beaches. I can disagree with you on private exclusive enjoyment of the beach and agree with you on over development, vending and beach behavior. Is this a breakthrough moment :)
     
  6. DanaMarie

    DanaMarie Beach Comber

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Point Washington
    mputnal,

    I purposely did not respond to your last few replies to me because they were rude and I was tired of listening to your monologues, since the intention of my posts has been dialogue. I am tired of your lectures and condescension, as if you are morally superior and more intelligent. I am tired of you using a post of mine to reply to and then launching into the same old political diatribe. Most of all, I am tired of you putting words in my mouth just so you can disagree with a statement I did not actually make. I did NOT say CU contributed to the current overcrowding. When the Ordinance was in effect and before it was repealed, CU might have been a contributing factor, but I didn’t say that, because I don’t know if it is true or not.

    If you actually read what I wrote you will see that I was talking about future capacity and future development. If developers can advertise free use of private beaches to the owners and renters of large non-beach developments, they’ll get higher sales prices and higher rental rates. That’s a fact. Higher sales prices and higher rental rates means more developments will be financially feasible and more will be built. That’s a fact.

    So, please don’t put words in my mouth or take them out of context just so you can agree or disagree with me. And, BTW, none of my posts have been directed at you or even mentioned your name except those where you replied to a post of mine. So please go argue with someone else.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Best Post Ever Best Post Ever x 1
    • List
  7. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    188
    DanaMarie, I guess that means there was no breakthrough moment :). Because I respect you and your opinions I will not respond to what I consider a bit of hypocrisy on your part and an inability to recognize your own rudeness. I am not offended by your words because I believe you are entitled to your opinions and I have learned to have thick skin. I tend to agree with you on my tiresome lectures and monologues. There is no new information coming from any of us. Why we keep posting the same stuff over and over again is a mystery. I generally respond to those who reference something I said or use my name especially when they twist my words. I much rather enjoy trying to find common ground with people and that is why I responded to your post at all. BTW I am not superior in any category of life. That is a fact :)
     
  8. DanaMarie

    DanaMarie Beach Comber

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Point Washington
    Mputnal,

    There it is with the name calling again. First you accused me of being disrespectful and now you accuse me of hypocrisy. Really? Yes, my last post was rude. I never said it wasn’t. It was in response to the last several rude posts of yours that I did not respond to, hoping you’d back off your high horse and leave me alone, but you didn’t so guess what, I finally responded. Nothing hypocritical about it. I can define Hypocrite for you, but I am sure you can look it up yourself. If you want to have a breakthrough and work with others who may agree on some issues (but not on others) then stop the personal attacks and name calling.
     
  9. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    188
    DanaMarie, If you do not see the hypocrisy in what you are posting then I am not going to argue with you. Thank you for admitting to your rudeness. No apology necessary. BTW being rude is not exactly what I would call respectful behavior but maybe I am just riding along on my high horse :) I absolutely agree with you on personal attacks and name calling. There is no good reason why that is appropriate behavior no matter what side you are on. This thread is full of bad behavior on both sides and I think we probably agree on that as well. My grandmother taught me to not say anything if I can't say something good about someone. I can hear her tell me that now is a good time to practice that wisdom. So, here it is: Thank you for speaking up on what you believe to be fair and reasonable on the issue of public recreational beach enjoyment versus private exclusive beach enjoyment. Your voice is important! I have actually learned a lot and I respect every bfo and the problems we are having with crowding, vending and behavior on the beach. I sincerely hope and wish that we all come together and find solutions and compromises so that we all can enjoy the beaches forever. The End (of another monologue) :)
     
  10. jodiFL

    jodiFL Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,313
    Likes Received:
    468
    Location:
    SOWAL,FL
    If you think that "free use of private beach" is what drove prices to what they are and that is what is keeping non-beach development prices so high you need to go read sales ads from about 25 years ago to present. You will see that when realtors started advertising "private beach" and "private beach access" is when the development of this area got out of hand. But as JimmyT said that horse is out of the barn and now we have a bunch of newcomers that should be taking that up with the realtor that sold them on that so they could drive the prices through the roof. Back in "the boom" more people in Florida had real estate licenses than had drivers licenses and not all of them were/are fine upstanding people. Most people move to a beach thinking they will be able to actually go to the beach without having to navigate a sea of "no trespassing" signs.
     
  11. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2017
    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach
    #2203 “State Parks cost money to maintain so Fbb please share (I know that is a bad word for you) [putting words in other's mouth again!?] with us how you maintain the beach sand.”

    Not that it matters what FL tax payers pay to maintain their deeded beach because the title beach bundle of rights are the same as mine; but I paid much more than $25,000 mandated by Walton County police powers just in property taxes for the "privilege" to have the Constitutional individual rights including quiet uninterrupted enjoyment to the MHWL on our legal deed AND I fill in the public dug sand pits, pick up public dog poop, cover up the public human urine, and pick up the public trash. How about you? How much do you pay to maintain the private beaches you use? How much property taxes did the State of Florida pay Walton County? Zero. That’s Police Powers.

    #2202 “What is different about the beachfront title and bundle of rights? What facts or law do you have to offer?” None so far and zero credibility.
     
  12. DanaMarie

    DanaMarie Beach Comber

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Point Washington
    JodiFL,

    I remember the area well from 25 years ago. In the late 70s and early to mid-80s, when I lived in New Orleans, we went to Destin when we went to the beach. I moved to Birmingham in the mid-80s, and still went to Destin for a couple more years, but as Destin became more and more crowded, and I realized I could rent a house on the beach in an area without high-rises, I started renting in Seagrove and Grayton. That’s when I first knew that eventually I’d want to live here. Back then I thought that one day I’d be able to afford beachfront, but then year by year I watched the prices of the beachfront homes skyrocket. It probably did have a lot to do with the fact that the beachfront deeds included property to the MHWL. Increases in the cost of beachfront homes probably resulted in increases in non-beachfront as well, but I wasn’t watching non-beachfront prices at the time. Back then it was nowhere near crazy crowded like it is today. Seaside was not fully developed, Alys Beach, Rosemary, Watercolor and a number of other areas weren’t yet developed, and most of the houses in Grayton were much smaller than they are today. For someone who has not lived here for very long but visited often, even I have nostalgic feelings for those years. I can’t imagine living here for the past 25 years and seeing the unbridled growth first-hand.


    But my post was not meant to be about past prices and what made them skyrocket. My post was intended to be about future uncontrolled growth. The public beaches weren’t at capacity 25 years ago. They probably weren’t even at capacity 10-15 years ago. Now they’re well past capacity. I wish beachfront to the MHWL was never sold to private residents, but it was. I wish the County could buy it back (for an appropriate price), but I doubt the County could afford it and I don’t know how many beachfront owners, if any, would sell. Yes, the horse is out of the barn. I just don’t believe that means that the public has the right to use private property. You’re right, of course, that most people who move to the beach think they’ll actually be able to go to the beach. I believe that if the public is granted that right through customary use, that it will only contribute to more development and even more overcrowding.
     
  13. Reggie Gaskins

    Reggie Gaskins Beach Lover

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2018
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    Blue Mountain Beach
    No pretense
    No agenda
    No threats
    No propaganda
    No ultimatum
    No line in sand
    No bloviating
    Just honest, simple, bare naked, real world, "Watched it with my own eyes" ... FACT

    Regardless of who wins...
    Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  14. Dave Rauschkolb

    Dave Rauschkolb Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    981
    Likes Received:
    643
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach
    Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy, Ridiculous hogwash. Notions like "Beach Use Density" and private property signs excluding the good public from beaches they have used for centuries and HB631 will destroy our 30A Legacy. On your list you left out personal attacks, attacking ones business, juvenile name calling and calling Customary Use supporters disparaging names like CU Pirates, and mob, and hooligans exhibited by many of your anonymous ilk on this thread.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  15. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    180
    Please, don’t forget hypocrite.
     
  16. Reggie Gaskins

    Reggie Gaskins Beach Lover

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2018
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    Blue Mountain Beach
    During 110,000 views and 2,200 posts here, we have begged for a mature discussion on topic. To spur that discussion, we have provided documented definitions of behaviors indicative of a:
    Pirate
    Mob
    Hooligan

    While trying to use those illustrative adjectives as metaphorical tools to depict obvious strategy and behaviors, we welcome alternative views with supporting facts that refute their accuracy, we have yet to receive that.

    In the meantime, we’ve offered volumes proving that BPO’s are indeed not as a group:
    Greedy
    Elite
    Wealthy
    Scoundrels
    Power Brokers
    Scum
    Thieves
    Criminals

    Regardless of who wins,
    Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
     
  17. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2017
    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach
    Wow! Why can’t this thread be about credible facts? Are CU believers really going to get into a p***ing contest about attacks and disparaging name calling exhibited by “many of your ilk” on this thread! Here are but a few;

    Lost count of the BPOs called GREEDY. Despicable. "condescending and derogatory". Propaganda. "ridiculous ... ridiculous and silly." "full of it. bombardment of total and complete BS". "narcissism, anger management problems, and delusions of grandeur ... angry buffoon". "dishonest ... dishonest and disrespectful ... propaganda". "morally right ... arrogance ... bullshit ... insulting ... propaganda". There's more CU believer’s BPO attacks but I think anyone can get the idea. That is just on this thread - not all SoWal or anti-social media.

    #9 Jenksy “... you are part of the problem and should leave.” Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    #158 Lake View Too “...continuing with a barrage of misinformation, it is quite reminiscent of Nazi tactics used to dominate the media.” Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    #173 and #179 Jenksy CU believer reply; “Exactly what a NAZI would say.” Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
    Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    #406 Lake View Too “Are you a joke? ... The only reason you need to have a sign is to prove you are an ahole.” Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    #431 Dawn “morally wrong and anti-human, while saying stupid stuff”
    #732 Dawn, "Cowardly"? "your contempt and self righteousness."? "axe grinding against a couple of outspoken Customary Use activists"?

    #462 “DEMONIZE. that is what you and your friends here do best.” Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    #636 James Bentwood (pseudonym?) “I am calling out the Auburn fan's propaganda ...” Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    #842 Jenksy “This thread is now owned by an attention whore.”
    Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    #1467 LV2 “You’re both fools, ...” Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    ... don’t have time to list the many-many more CU believers personal attacks, juvenile name calling and calling BPOs disparaging names. Factual challenges on baseless beliefs should be acceptable.

    Surprised the pseudonyms dead horse was not mentioned.
    #488 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
    #832 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
    #2159 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Wish I'd Said That Wish I'd Said That x 1
    • List
  18. Alex Miles

    Alex Miles Beach Comber

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2019
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Montgomery
    While we're makin' a list, and checkin' it twice, might as well add the new term from Governor Huckabee's Florida Bar Complaint against FBFA attorney Daniel Uhlfelder's behavior:
    "Childish peevishness."
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  19. Dave Rauschkolb

    Dave Rauschkolb Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    981
    Likes Received:
    643
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach
    Check out this list:
    Mr, Uhlfelder's twitter feed had 400 followers yesterday. Today, 31,000. Now be sure and check it twice.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  20. Alex Miles

    Alex Miles Beach Comber

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2019
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Montgomery
    Why would a competent attorney grow a hate club mob overnight? As if that would be something professionally to be proud of?

    At least now nobody's talking about your beach bar in the dunes. Or that Walton Watchdog Blog. Or the shocking fact that you think managing beach use density is "ridiculous".

    What did you want to check again twice? I forget.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page