Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

[mputnal]

Reggie, calling The People "crazies" represents who you are and I understand why you use a fake name to post your anti-social messages. I would very much look forward to an "honest reality" in the form of a live debate between you and an unknown opponent. I assume you understand why keeping your opponent unknown is fair right?

Listen Reggie, I agree with you that this forum does not always bring out the best behavior in people but we really do not have to be enemies. Let us all stop with this me is good and you is bad kind of thinking and posting. You have only really brought out the worst in people like bmbv. I would think you can do better at making friends and not enemies. I do not disrespect you and I understand your complaints but like my grandmother taught me there is ALWAYS two sides to every argument. We both can be better listeners so why not lets stop fighting so hard on this and figure out something that works?

 

[mputnal]

FBB, thank you for helping me prove my point of who is representing community and who is representing anti-community. Again, we do not have to keep fighting to be right so hard. The lawsuit will correct those deeds so why not both sides get together for a community fish fry and have a live but respectful debate? My message is that we should be friends not enemies. Just seems like more fun to me...

 

[FloridaBeachBum]

Mark, I disagree with your and other CU believers derogatory mis-characterizations of beachfront owners. “You have only really brought out the worst in people like bmbv.” Disagree. No more than you, Dave Rauschkolb, and other CU believers have. Regardless of your, and other CU believers, other opinions that may be included in posts, that I may or may not be commenting on, I can only click a comment on the whole post.

Is derogatory mis-characterizations of BFO all you and CU believers have to add? Just like antisocial media posts, CU believers “see” and “hear” what they want and not the facts or law. Your CU beliefs are not credible or relevant to the Walton commissioners’ litigation. Your belief of a CU revolt or Government private property eminent domain condemnation - is a not reality. I am interested in the facts, history, law, and other private property rights informed opinions. That’s the only reason I watch this thread - and to learn about the CU believers illusions of truth and law.

CUnCourt were the public-use of private-property rights “debate” will be decided at Walton tax payers and beachfront property owner’s expense (many millions). Are you, or any CU believer, willing to put your money where your mouth is in Walton Commissioners’ CU litigation? Like 650+ beachfront parcel owners (2,300? property owners) have. If not I’m not to worry about your belief in CU revolts.

 

[kayti elliott]

Let me get this straight. If someone happens to own a condo unit in a beachfront condominium they're being sued. Is that correct?

 

[mputnal]

FBB, I believe in public beaches. You believe in private beaches. I want to believe we could have both. We can't. Both sides are to blame. I do not want to justify anything I have said that is negative or derogatory because it is wrong. I admit that I am not always right. I did try to see your side of things. I did try and show respect. But my last post to bmbv was wrong and disrespectful. I apologize to him and all the readers of this thread. There is no excuse on my part. Respect is a discipline and I failed. I hope I will do better.

I don't understand your logic of blame. Our resources are disappearing. Who is responsible? Who has control over the resource is very important. We do need civil discussion. I hope that we all can learn something in a forum like this but we all should want to have respect for each other. This is not a war. We are NOT enemies. We all want to enjoy this valuable resource. If there is a will there is a way...

 

[bob bob]

Mark, I disagree with your and other CU believers derogatory mis-characterizations of beachfront owners. “You have only really brought out the worst in people like bmbv.” Disagree. No more than you, Dave Rauschkolb, and other CU believers have. Regardless of your, and other CU believers, other opinions that may be included in posts, that I may or may not be commenting on, I can only click a comment on the whole post.

Is derogatory mis-characterizations of BFO all you and CU believers have to add? Just like antisocial media posts, CU believers “see” and “hear” what they want and not the facts or law. Your CU beliefs are not credible or relevant to the Walton commissioners’ litigation. Your belief of a CU revolt or Government private property eminent domain condemnation - is a not reality. I am interested in the facts, history, law, and other private property rights informed opinions. That’s the only reason I watch this thread - and to learn about the CU believers illusions of truth and law.

CUnCourt were the public-use of private-property rights “debate” will be decided at Walton tax payers and beachfront property owner’s expense (many millions). Are you, or any CU believer, willing to put your money where your mouth is in Walton Commissioners’ CU litigation? Like 650+ beachfront parcel owners (2,300? property owners) have. If not I’m not to worry about your belief in CU revolts.

I believe beaches should be public, all beaches everywhere. The beach in SoWal should never have been sold. It was a mistake. I look for the courts to correct the mistake. I don't believe that a gulf front lot will be any less valuable whether the beach is on the deed or not.

Beachfront owners will win if they outspend the opposition. Perhaps outside groups will get involved and take it out of our hands.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Thank you BMBV, your sanity and support of adult discussion are needed in this propaganda onslaught. Stop trying to argue with those incapable of linear arguments or cogent thought.

Your words are sincerely appreciated (says this groupie ).

But here’s a correction folks, I don’t believe I’ve ever used the word debate. I’m pretty sure I’ve always offered to Dave, a calm, relaxed, public DISCUSSION. Table and chairs, stage, microphone, wine and cheese. And no, I’m not a professional debater, far from it.

I stand corrected.

I’m in on the all admissions go to charity part...any excuse to drink. One rule would have to be adhered to....no interruptions from the peanut gallery including me - maybe only questions/comments via notes ahead of time and Dave and Reggie get to choose which ones to discuss.

In this environment, maybe Dave will actually consider Reggie’s outreached hand for a face to face, framed as a discussion, not a debate. And who knows? Maybe something genuinely positive will occur.

 

[FloridaBeachBum]

Kayti Elliott, “Let me get this straight. If someone happens to own a condo unit in a beachfront condominium they're being sued. Is that correct?”
Yes.

Walton County sent (by certified mail, signature required) notice of intent to litigate old English common law public “customary” use of private beachfront property to 4,671 beachfront owners on 1,193 beachfront parcels. Twice because Walton legal was unable to verify all notices in the first 4,671 owner mail out. Walton commissioners including at least one non-beachfront Seaside 30A business owner notice.

According to Government public records. Over 650+ beachfront-parcel owners have filed as defendants to intervene against Walton commissioners lawsuit. Parcels are owned by individuals, spouses, condo HOAs, and corporations. Unknown if anyone has summarized the number of owners for each parcel that is intervening. On average that is 3.9 owners per parcel. Or at LEAST 2,535 private property owners, on average, that are Defendants spending many tens of thousands of dollars each of their personal money to defend their Constitutional property rights from Walton Commissioners CU litigation to protect their Constitutional private property rights. If property owners prevail Walton tax payers may have to pay beachfront owners’ legal fees as well (not that the Walton commissioners or CU believers care; it’s only every Walton tax payer’s multi-millions of dollars, not their personal money at risk).

At least 2 private beachfront “defendant” owners have filed to intervene FOR Walton commissioners (the Plaintiffs) CU litigation. At least one non-beachfront (beach-view only, does not own from the Seaside beach dune seaward to the MHWL) Seaside 30A LLC owner “defendant” is interviewing FOR Walton commissioners’ CU litigation. Non-profit FBFA, Inc., is intervening, representing the public FOR Walton commissioners’ litigation. Unclear why; because the public CU interest is already represented by Walton commissioners. All three property owners and FBFA intervening FOR Walton commissioners’ private property CU litigation are represented by attorney Daniel Uhlfelder. Who is a very vocal CU "warrior" active on CU social-media and previous Walton commissioners’ CU public meetings before and after 2018 HB631 protected property owner Constitutional due process became Florida Statute 163.035.

So yes, the condo HOA that owns private beachfront in common for the resident owners, usually have to get approval from the condo owners to represent their property interests, and share the legal expense, against Walton commissioners’ CU litigation against their private real property interests.

 

[FloridaBeachBum]

Mark Putnal, "FBB, I believe in public beaches. You believe in private beaches." The difference is you believe and BFO have American property law facts. 1,193 beachfront owners have legal title, most to the MHWL or ECL, with ALL legal property rights. You "believe" in CU. On what basis? Personal opinions are not relevant except maybe on social media. Beachfront owners have the Constitution and law (not a belief) that states there is NO public use of private property without the owner's consent. Just like your or anyone else's waterfront property. There is NO distinction between highly desirable beachfront property rights and any other private property rights. The Walton commissioners, the Plaintiff, have the de novo burden of proof. Not private beachfront property owners.

 

[mputnal]

Fbb, there is a lawsuit that will correct the deeds. Just wondering what you think about a community fish fry?