Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. Lake View Too

    Lake View Too SoWal Insider

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    The first, and perhaps, the only rule in propaganda is: If you keep telling a lie over and over and over and over and over again, the populace will start to believe it is true. That’s what this thread is all about.
     
  2. L.C. Bane

    L.C. Bane Beach Fanatic

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    Yes my link was bad. This was mentioned several times and I aknowleged this. I don't know why it didn't copy over correctly. I can't go back and edit/fix it. My post was in reply to the 5th Amendment Taking Clause comment made by Poppaj. The quoted response that included the bad link was "the Supreme Court held that general benefits which a community would enjoy from the furthering of economic development is sufficient to qualify as a 'public use.'"

    Now that semantics are out of the way.....

    Interesting read below.

    Customary Use Facts
     
  3. Mike Jones

    Mike Jones Beach Fanatic

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    Don't allow yourself to be bullied. The bullies on this thread don't realize (or probably care) that they stand out like a sore thumb in the garden that is the SoWal forum. I've seen it before. They leave as victims when they realize that bullies can't exist here.

    Typical pattern for bullies on SoWal - arrive suddenly, become aggressive very quickly, get frustrated, flail about, get butt hurt, cry victim.

    You can see the pattern playing out on this thread as plain as day.
     
  4. L.C. Bane

    L.C. Bane Beach Fanatic

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    The irony is that they are actually unifying us to a degree. Me, Poppaj, Lake View Too and some others don't agree on much but on this topic we actually share some common ground (no pun intended).
     
  5. Poppaj

    Poppaj Beach Fanatic

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    Link was defective and obviously no fault of yours. Easily rectified by simply googling the case you referred to.
     
  6. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    OK on the Keto link. We all make mistakes. But there is a difference between semantic and facts.
    What makes the FL Senate sponsor of 2018 HB631 read interesting to public customary use of private property advocates?

    No one ever answered questions about Kelo. Did anyone read Kelo and understand the facts of the case?
    Only a quote about Kelo taken out of context. "the Supreme Court held that general benefits which a community would enjoy from the furthering of economic development is sufficient to qualify as a 'public use.'" So? What does that have to do about Walton private beachfront and the legal doctrine of old English custom?

    Is the point that Kelo permits any public use economic development of any private property, like private beachfront property?
    Or did Kelo determine that a governmental taking of private property and making that previously private property, not available to the public, but to a different private property owner justify a police power eminent domain condemnation litigation?
    If your definition of bulling is presenting facts about unsubstantiated beliefs - you have an odd definition of bulling. Can you give specific examples of bullying besides "there just is!".
    #756 posts and counting. Not leaving anytime soon but will just ignore the repetitive meaningless LV2 posts in violation of SoWal Terms of Use 3.2 (a) Be courteous. ... do not deliberately disrupt discussions with repetitive messages, meaningless messages or "spam."

    What public customary use of private property facts are you all offering?
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  7. Poppaj

    Poppaj Beach Fanatic

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    In LC Bane’s post, the one that caused you to freak out over a bad link, he asked in bold letters and I quote, "Is that Plan B (if needed)?"
     
  8. L.C. Bane

    L.C. Bane Beach Fanatic

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    Correct. It was a question.
     
  9. Bob Wells

    Bob Wells Beach Fanatic

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    • Thanks for the clarification from the Senator. Now if she could come up and explain it to all, because obviously her intent is important.
     
  10. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

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    I had the exact same question when I read the link to Kathleen Passidomo’s website. What is the point of referring to it from a CU supporter’s viewpoint? Truly an open minded question.
     
  11. L.C. Bane

    L.C. Bane Beach Fanatic

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    What Bob Wells said and to ad, information from the sponsor of the bill is interesting. That is all. Not playing a "gotcha" game. Nothing to read into guys.
     
  12. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Just wondered what made the Passidomo interesting enough to comment now? It's been posted for a while.

    Another interesting read from the FL House Sponsor almost a year ago.
    Edwards-Walpole defends HB 631. By State Rep. Katie Edwards-Walpole [2018 FL House sponsor of HB 631]. Jul 28, 2018.

    The temperature is rising and it’s not just the hot Florida sun. A new law, that I sponsored during the 2018 Legislative Session and that went into effect on July 1, 2018, aims to introduce a balanced process for resolving the legal issue of whether customary use exists on privately owned beachfront property in Florida. Much to my disappointment, this law has been misunderstood by both proponents and opponents alike, causing temperatures to rise and disputes to ensue.

    The law, simply put, was intended to protect private property rights from local government political pressures to adopt ordinances outside of a legal review of evidence relating to customary use and to protect government from literally hundreds of individual lawsuits challenging whether those customary use ordinances were legal. Importantly, the law preserves local governments’ ability to accommodate for customary use, meaning beachgoers may still have the ability to use the beaches as they did before.

    Yet, some have viewed this as a restriction on their right to access the beach, and have deliberately trespassed on private, beachfront property and incited owners to themselves act in ways which leave many scratching their heads.

    Let me be clear about what the law does and was intended to do. The legislation says that the decision on whether or not a government can invoke customary use on someone’s private property goes to a neutral third-party, which is the court system. Until the law was passed, a government entity made up of a handful of people, like local county commissioners, could unilaterally decide to declare a right of use over private property for public use. That is the same as a taking and was inevitably going to result in years of costly litigation, likely to not end well for local governments.

    Moreover, there is a misconception that after a private beach has been re-nourished using public funds that it will remain private and won’t be open to the public for use and enjoyment. This argument is nothing more than a red herring. The fact is, once the beach undergoes re-nourishment it becomes public [seaward of the Erosion Control Line (ECL), based on the local MHWL] and beachgoers are welcome to use it as such.

    As the sponsor of this legislation, I will say I have watched some of the news reports of conflict and confusion over this law. I encourage property owners and beachgoers alike to work together and understand that this bill is not about making beaches private or disrupting your day in the sand. Again, this bill only adds a vital step affording [private property owner] due process, which is a foundational element of the U.S. Constitution. Emphasis added.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  13. L.C. Bane

    L.C. Bane Beach Fanatic

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    Dang FBB. You "liked" my post then took it away. Are you just being coy?
     
  14. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    No. Just undecided.
     
  15. Poppaj

    Poppaj Beach Fanatic

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    I guess it’s a foundational element If you consider the last sentence of the 5th amendment to be foundational. Sounds more like an afterthought.
     
  16. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    The 5th Amendment is only one sentence with 3 semicolon clauses. Unclear what you mean by "last sentence" and what sounds like an after thought? Government taking "Without just compensation" is an after thought of the Constitution authors?

    State Rep. Katie Edwards-Walpole does not refer to the 5th Amendment. The 14th Amendment is also about due process.
    The Constitution states only one command twice. Due Process

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    14th Amendment Section 1.
    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  17. Poppaj

    Poppaj Beach Fanatic

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    Afterthought as in “hey guys, we should have included this with that first document.” Next time you build a house tell your architect you want to place some “foundational elements” on the 5th and 14th floors.
     
  18. Bob Wells

    Bob Wells Beach Fanatic

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  19. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Can you explain, not read to the forum, what you remember and think Senator Passidomo had say? Otherwise, your point is unclear.
    Did Gov Scott EO-18-202 address Government owned public dry sand beaches, beach seaward of the MHWL (foreshore), or All public and private FL dry sand beaches?
     

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  20. Auburn Fan

    Auburn Fan Beach Lover

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    Serious question:

    If fighting for public beach use is a national issue, why does Walton County have to foot the bill?

    :scratching:
     

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