Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. Auburn Fan

    Auburn Fan Beach Lover

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    No fantasy boogey man here.
    BPOs have already been forced to spend thousands of dollars on legal expenses. Each defendant. And the cases havn't even officially started. And there's over 700 defendants. Don't try to dismiss our concern as fantasy fears. It's reality.

    And corruption is indeed wicked. Our county has seen more than its share of corruption, already.

    Corruption and absentee ownership go hand-in-hand. So of course the power brokers prefer to attract the short term rental investors, owners who dont reside here, who are happy to send unlimited numbers of tourists to the beach, while they make ever-growing profits. The fewer the full-time residents, the easier to get away with corruption in government, and the more control in the hands of a powerful few. And adding another layer of "City" government will not eliminate the abundant opportunities for corruption, if most of the owners are absent.

    Fact:
    During the last 2 years, Walton County has added 735 NEW short-term-rentals PER YEAR. With no end in sight.


    "According to Visit South Walton, a tourism agency representing the area that encompasses 30A, the region has 13,735 active rentals this summer, up 12 percent from the same time two years ago."
    ~New York Times August 5, 2019


     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
  2. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    AF, I am not dismissing your fear. All I am saying about fear is that is it an emotion that can get carried away. Of course we all despise corruption but if you go down that path we have to include all billionaires in that wicked category. I prefer to say the system is broken and we need to fix it rather than calling anyone wicked or evil. I do not think the 1% is wicked. I do think they abused the system at the expense of the 99%. Resources are finite meaning that there is one big pie that everyone eats from. Right now 99% of the population eat from one-half (or less) of the pie and the 1% eat from the other half. Is that not corrupt? If not why?
     
  3. EZ4144

    EZ4144 Beach Lover

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    Is it the socialists, the capitalists or the corrupt that is coming after our life, liberty and private beaches? OMG everybody! Retreat to our bama woods and load our guns!!!
     
  4. Auburn Fan

    Auburn Fan Beach Lover

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    Resorting to ridicule is a display of an inability to address the hard facts that were presented.

    And yes, power brokers are fueling socialistic emotions.

    It wouldn't be so funny to you if you were the one losing your money and property.

     
  5. Auburn Fan

    Auburn Fan Beach Lover

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    Mputnal, you seem to have a deep desire for fairness. I can respect that. I have 2 questions for you.

    1. Is it fair to legally sell something valuable to thousands of citizens, only to take it away from them without compensation? (And as Walton County attempted also, without due process?)

    2. Is it fair to punish thousands of property owners, robbing them of their rights, because of the ugly behavior of a less than a handful?

    (Also, if you and your family were subject to social media video ambush by unethical activists and attorneys, on your very own property, you might have a better understanding of BPO concerns and not try to dismiss them as "getting carried away with emotion".)

     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
  6. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    1. I don't have enough information as for as the seller, the buyer, the title, the deed, the neighborhood covenant, the survey (including riparian) the purchase agreement, county ordinance, etc. to determine fairness. In my opinion if you are able to purchase beach property and build an exclusive building then I believe it is fair to ask you to share the beach. I understand why you would disagree with this. I believe a compromise is best for everyone. Without a compromise the State or County may have to pursue eminent domain and compensate you. I would not want to be a Judge and Jury tasked with deciding compensation.

    2. I don't understand the question specifically about punishing and robbing. Did the county punish or rob you when they gave you the permit to build a house on the sand dunes that blocks the view of everyone except you? You see it is a matter of perspective. If you are a person that would like to see the resource but your building blocks the view of that resource then where is the fairness in that? I don't blame you for building on the sand dunes because The People gave you permission to do this legally...but why can't The People ask you to share the beach?

    I do not agree with some of the tactics of CU or liberal activism. I have in fact been the recipient of attacks from liberal activists on this website. I do believe that only a few of them are responsible for the name calling and grand standing. I think they do it for attention or they are just mean spirited. If they are disrespectful to you in anyway then they should not be allowed on the beach behind your building.
     
  7. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    AF I can't help thinking about your statement about the "power brokers fueling socialistic emotions". Yes there are power brokers involved in this process now. We all need to have our eyes wide open. Power comes from wealth. Politics and wealth are joined at the hip. Politics is two political parties that have succeeded in splitting The People right down the middle. When I first began reading and posting on this thread I also thought that the power brokers where coming from the share the beach (CU) side because it seemed that the BPO side was just blaming the Walton County commissioners for "taking" their property. The more I read and the more I interacted I realized that the "facts" being presented by the BPO side had nothing to do with community and everything to do with power. Each time I suggested compromise they would recite facts about the Constitution but I began to notice the introduction of political agenda. Politics uses fear to keep us divided. The fear of the government taking something from us is a practiced and intelligent methodology to prey on our fears. I understand the fear but socialism is already a part of our society in things like social security and medicare. Taxes are also a form of socialism. We do have the Constitution to guide us along the way but there are other factors that should be used to guide us as well. This group promoting property rights over those other factors is an attempt to divide us and not even listen to a compromise. There is no good reason why we should not compromise these problems in sharing this resource. I trust neither side of politics 100 percent of the time. I believe that society should exist in moderation between selfish and selfless. I am not demonizing selfish because it is a human trait coming from the instinct of survival. Selfless is difficult for humans. All I am saying is that we need to be aware of the power of giving, caring and sharing with others. People misbehaving has always been a problem in society and we must have rules of behavior. When it comes to a resource like our beautiful beach I hope that this community will figure out a way to compromise so that everyone is happy and not just one side wins and one side loses. Yes, maybe it is a fantasy but why not believe in something more powerful than myself?
     
  8. EZ4144

    EZ4144 Beach Lover

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    Beachfront owners are painting themselves as Mr. Burns. All the posts and threats are backfiring. The actions of a few protesters have revealed your true nature. Duped in to reacting and we see clearly who you are now.

    [​IMG]


    Almost every beachfront owner post on here mentions "facts". The only fact I know is that post after post trying to make a case or gain sympathy is ridiculous and futile, and makes beach front owners look cruel and greedy. The fact is that ridicule and shame of beach front owners is growing in our community and by our visitors.

    The fact that beach front owners are involved in a legal process but continue to spout propaganda is proof that either they know they are losing and venting frustration. Or waiting on the process to play out and vanely can't keep their vindictive mouth shut.
     
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  9. Reggie Gaskins

    Reggie Gaskins Beach Lover

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    MP, I've been trying hard to understand your refusal to answer direct questions, and your constant blurring of reality vs utopian existence. You proclaim your opinions of how you'd use and manage other people's property as if you had any say in it whatsoever. You dont, that's not how our country's laws work. As I read more, and you repeat blurry reality more, there is a very familiar ring to your beliefs:
    ===========
    Power Broker Conspiracy
    Wealth = Evil/Greedy
    1% vs 99%
    Power of the majority rules
    Business Elite = Political Elite
    Ignoring Constitutional law, in favor of social desires
    Redistribution of wealth to meet social demand
    Defiant masses ignoring property rights
    Demanded Equality of natural and financial resources
    ============
    I recognized the platform as a known movement with an identity/brand. I couldn't place it. So I strung a group of your platform pillars together, and boom! Google always wins. I was embarrassed at how obvious the answer. I knew it well, and am sure you do too. I hope you'll have an open mind enough to see the preaching here as a manifesto of your collective platform. Now that we've clearly identified your official position, we may get somewhere.

    Occupy Wall Street - Wikipedia

    *** Disclaimer: I've never referred to Wikipedia as a reliable source for obvious reasons. However, IMO, after reading dozens of pieces, this one is most complete in its coverage of the movement.
     
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  10. beachmax

    beachmax Beach Comber

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    We are all falling for a real estate developers head fake. The commercial interests along 30-A are dividing 30-A lovers as they get the Walton BCC to do their bidding. The county continues to pursue additional north-south connectors form 98 to CR30-A in the state forest so more tourists can clog our already overloaded infrastructure. More tourist $$$ for the commercial interests. Customary Use is necessary for the new 170,000 single family dwelling St. Joe development, Latitude Margaritaville Watersound, on the north side of West Bay is to be a financial success. Their marketing materials emphasize the proximity to amenities along 30-A. They seem to have little respect or concern for the impact on their earlier beach front communities and inland locals alike. Surprise.
    Keep 30-A funky. There is a BCC meeting on August 21 on this subject. Let's all unite and go to the meeting and help stop the abuse of and the profiteering from our precious and declining natural resources.
     
  11. Mike Jones

    Mike Jones Beach Fanatic

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    I think 30a is too narrow - please consider broadening your interest to protect our way of life to all of South Walton .
     
  12. SUP View

    SUP View Beach Comber

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    "We are all falling for a real estate developers head fake. The commercial interests along 30-A are dividing 30-A lovers as they get the Walton BCC to do their bidding. The county continues to pursue additional north-south connectors form 98 to CR30-A in the state forest so more tourists can clog our already overloaded infrastructure. More tourist $$$ for the commercial interests. Customary Use is necessary for the new 170,000 single family dwelling St. Joe development, Latitude Margaritaville Watersound, on the north side of West Bay is to be a financial success. Their marketing materials emphasize the proximity to amenities along 30-A. They seem to have little respect or concern for the impact on their earlier beach front communities and inland locals alike. Surprise.
    Keep 30-A funky. There is a BCC meeting on August 21 on this subject. Let's all unite and go to the meeting and help stop the abuse of and the profiteering from our precious and declining natural resources."


    This is as good a description as any that have been provided in the past. I know in all my direct talks with WCC members and the county attorney, there was not ONE instance where they wanted to discuss a compromise. NOT ONE - and I tried to have a discussion that would provide a basis for MORE discussion. Sadly, that was not going to happen. It is still puzzling that many CU supporters are accepting of the county spending millions of "OUR" tax money on a case that has little if any chance of success. The fact that the WCC won't even discuss a compromise solution is more proof that they are in step with the big developers to broaden their tax stream.
     
  13. beachmax

    beachmax Beach Comber

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    Keep South Walton funky.
     
  14. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Reggie, I understand why you are trying so hard to label me and put me into a group that you can attack but I only follow my instincts. I am sometimes a progressive type person. I am sometimes a conservative type person. I am a registered Republican but I do not follow either party "exclusively". I do not believe in exclusion on the beach yet I understand why you do. I have no agenda. No platform. No real power at all. I do not hide behind a computer. I simply like to interact with people either personally or on social media like this forum. I don't believe that occupy Wall Street was anything more than a group of young people who are asking good questions. Please tell us what you think of the financial crisis and who is to blame? The very nature of a young person is idealism and I do not discredit or devalue them even though their organizational skills need improving. I have already explained to you that yes I fantasize about an idealistic society where there are personal economic failures that is supposed to make us stronger not weaker. However The People should not lose hope because the system allows wealth to fail without the same consequences as the rest of us. My instincts are that you seek power. If my opinion is wrong then explain what other powers do you believe in besides property rights and how it relates to community. You have already answered my question about economic inequality and unfairness and we both agreed that it exists but somehow you desire to justify it. You say that you understand how laws work but you seem confused on how life works. I explained to you that I or my children would never go on your property without permission because I respect your right of exclusion. Then you proceeded to explain how I should punish my child if they neglected to see your exclusive beach sign. Apparently you do not even understand what abuse of power is. Yet somehow I am preaching and you are well...the authority!

    I have no idea which questions you are referring to that I have not answered. I think you just don't like my answers. Please ask then again. I am not hiding anything. Between the two of us one of uses a real name and one of us use a fictional name. I do not understand why you keep making the point that you have the facts but then use fiction when it comes to your name. You said that you do this because of fear. I don't buy it. I can't figure that one out. The People are not as ignorant as you think we are. Maybe you fear that society will become unified and request (not demand) a more equitable distribution of resources but you certainly do not have any reason to fear your community. I do not demand anything of you except for you to have respect for your community. I do not desire anything you have including the beach behind your exclusive building on top of the sand dune. You desire exclusive use of the beach yet you keep saying that The People are all desire and no substance. All I am asking you is to share the beach with respectful people. Give something back to the same society that helped you be successful. Why is that so hard really? So, all that stuff you listed above is fiction and meant to frighten property owners. I am very sorry that I busted your "boom" but you could not be more wrong about why I care about any of this. Smile when you see others enjoying the beach because life is short! It is good for us all to be happy and have hope. Take the hope away from society and it is the fall of Rome over and over again. Happy people are hopeful and content. Be smart and don't rock the boat just because you can...
     
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  15. bob1

    bob1 Beach Lover

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    Don't be distracted by the term "big developers". Developers of all sizes want open beaches, as do citizens, small and large businesses, and visitors. The only ones who don't want open beaches are beach front owners who want no one on the beach or those who have been scared into action by the unsavory and the lawyers looking to profit.
     
  16. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Beachmax, we both agree on the declining natural resource. Do you happen to own land that once use to be a sand dune? If so, do you also own a building on that sand dune? I am not implying anything about who is right and who is wrong but don't you feel like it might be a stretch to blame the problem entirely on the commissioners for allowing over development when we all are responsible for this declining resource. Once we develop our desirable property is it fair to say to others that they are not allowed to develop as well? I agree that we need to show up and be heard at these community functions and start finding ways to limit development and improve existing infrastructure but this blame game is getting old. We should elect good leaders to represent us but if we don't whose fault is that? If we elect people that cater to big developers whose fault is that? Why not find better leaders? Maybe we just disagree about who is at fault but we should agree that the beach is a beautiful place that makes people happy! Excluding people from the beach because you can is just power. I suggest that power in the hands of a few will make people very unhappy. I see no reason why it is a good idea to make a lot of people unhappy...just because you can!
     
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  17. Reggie Gaskins

    Reggie Gaskins Beach Lover

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    MP, You make waaaay too many assumptions about me. You are dead wrong in every one. My life’s work is all about people and community. Read the initial post again. I believe we all get along on our beaches just fine without an abusive lawsuit or loud public campaign against private owners.

    You seem to think sand is different than dirt, a riverbank, an island, a mountaintop. In this case, where deeded property was sold to private individuals, it’s the same. If your property deed boundary is the Mean High Tide Line on the beach, then you own everything landward until the next boundary, like every other property in America.

    The property is sold at market value. Market value is determined by supply and demand. There are few private islands for sale, scarcity drives up their price. There are few mountaintops available, supply and demand increases that price. Riverbanks are more rare than farmland, hence a supply and demand price increase. Property on the bay is 4 times as expensive as exact same property one mile inland. There is limited amount of private beach available, short supply, high demand, up goes the price.

    Your world view is appropriate if the property were not private. Unfortunately for your argument, In Walton County, about 50% of the dry sand beach was sold as private property. It’s not about power you see, it’s about the president of private property rights, bought at free market, high prices. Along with the deed and rights that go along with it. No conspiracy, no movement, no power, no shadows in the night. Just folks paying higher prices for a scarce resource on the free market.
     
  18. bob bob

    bob bob Beach Fanatic

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    And the present dilemma is all about correcting the mistake of selling the sand in the first place. It was a monumental mistake. A lot of mistakes have been made here because civilization came late.

    However I have no doubt that including sand in deeds was never meant to exclude the public from enjoying the beach. Interpreting your rights to exclude is perverted.
     
  19. Reggie Gaskins

    Reggie Gaskins Beach Lover

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    Interesting. Seriously. Legit discussion point here. Thousands upon thousands of legal transactions have been made under the law. How can that be considered a mistake? The concept, maybe. The transaction and resulting commerce and possession? No. Besides, You can’t correct a “mistake” by illegally “taking” someone’s property. You either buy it, or work out a mutually agreeable use agreement. Even eminent domain is a government option that hopefully never sees light here.

    Why would a property deed with strict boundary lines not “mean” just that? Unless otherwise noted on the deed or platt or sale document or county/state/federal law, a property deed “means” private property and all of the rights that go along with it. That always includes the right of exclusion. No amount of public outcry or public demand can change that.

    Any private deed, BY DEFINITION, s indeed legally “meant” to exclude the public from that property at the owners discretion. Nothing written anywhere in Walton Co contradicts that.

    That’s why private owners are forced to defend themselves in this lawsuit. They aren’t attacking the public. Most of them don’t even mind public responsible use on beach. But to donate their property to the public is not what they paid for.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  20. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Reggie, I want to believe that your "life's work is people and the community" but my instinct is telling me that you are on a political mission. If that were true then why hide your name? You seem very confident that you are an authority. You have an opportunity here to prove me wrong but you will have to use a real name. I only trust what I can verify.

    Yes sand is made from a natural resource and people are inspired by it. Of course it is different because it is connected to the resource where life began. It is a limited resource which you helped to limit by buying and building on a sand dune. As you say, "it is your right" to purchase part of the resource and then exclude it from The People. Without knowing who you are I do not trust you to have the power to exclude people from the sandy beaches and then campaign to limit future development. Maybe laws work that way but life does not.

    If you have been reading my post I think you would know that I am familiar with supply and demand economics. You would know that I believe that supply and demand are affected by a monopolization of resources in a very negative way. The very definition of wealth is an accumulation of resources. Wealth accumulates resources and then limits or in this case "excludes" access to those resources. Sound familiar?

    Wealth accumulates resources and then limits or excludes the resource. Does that sound like a free market? I believe the biggest mistake by the county was to give wealth a ticket to a desirable resource. Maybe they trusted you to share the resource and that is where I put some blame on the county. Trusting wealth with the community was apparently a bad idea. You have proven this over and over with your desire to refuse compromise on the right to exclude. Listen, I want you to prove me wrong but you have a hard time even using the word "share" so I am not holding my breath!

    Yes, you are part of a movement that uses power and fear to control others. It's not evil but you don't really care about The People. It's just apathy and we all suffer from it at times. My only message is that The People need to have hope and we will not find it in your message!
     
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