Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

[Stone Cold J]

How can we turn the entire strip of 30A beaches into a State Park? Each Walton County resident could get a yearly pass included with their property taxes and the State would limit the number of beach visitors to the available resources (parking, bathrooms, etc) and that would protect our unique and sensitive ecosystem for our grandchildren.

Our TDC Web Site has the "Brand Promise" to "provide visitors with a relaxing escape: an upscale, yet casual, place to unwind and rejuvenate. Charm and scenic beauty define our stretch of Northwest Florida's Gulf Coast, and our white sand beaches and turquoise water offer a natural setting, where visitors feel comfortable. We deliver an unforgettable experience, filled with lasting memories".

From Danny Glidewell District 2 Website: Commitments: (#1) "return the emphasis of our marketing to high-end, family oriented tourism that brings in more income while increasing safety and enjoyment, both in our homes and on our roadways" (#6) "base our development codes and decisions on common sense and what is the best interest of all citizens by protecting the property rights of those already working and living here as well as those seeking to develop our area" and (#7) "expand preservation of our historical heritage and insure the protection of our beautiful natural resources".

We cannot accomplish the above and have 30A open with no density management and a free for all with no code enforcement, with tourists that feel entitled to park anywhere and end up destroying our fragile ecosystem. We already have huge infrastructure problems with 4 million tourists. What happens when we hit 6 million or 8 million?

Last week the Destin log reported "HIGH FECAL POLUTION" at Blue Mountain and Grayton Beaches. Guess we know where 4 million tourists are using the bathroom. Our coastal dune lakes are at the highest level of pollution in 20 years.

It doesn't matter if your are Pro CU or Pro Property Rights (as I have stated before, I am both Pro CU and Pro Property Rights and don't see that as a conflict). We must come together as a community to figure out a way to balance our unique and sensitive ecosystem compared to the desire of some to ruin it all chasing short term tourist dollars, mega rental houses, constant downgrading of our long term ecological protection plan to flip real estate for big profits, beach bars, and restaurant expansions.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

I call BS on being disrespectful no matter what side you are on. There is hypocrisy on both sides. CU wants to keep beaches open to the public yet are strongly opposed to a public pier. I see more disrespect, ridicule and shaming on the CU side. BFO's are opposed to government interfering with property rights yet the property rights they seek interfere with the common good. BFO's buildings already block our view of a beautiful natural resource and damage that resource by building on the sand dunes. Both sides are principled up the yin yang.

This thread regardless of intent has once again brought out the worst in all of us. If we don't figure out a way to compromise our principles then both sides will ruin the 30A legacy.

No, I call BS on your BS. Just kidding.

I observe a healthy mixture of emotions and opinion in your post. I have noticed that more than once you have brought up the public pier. Who was mainly against it? BFOs or others? And is it DOA?

Regarding blocked views and building on dunes, those issues are pretty much everywhere in the U.S., especially the gulf and eastern U.S. And I’m not necessarily disagreeing. But that fat lady has sung. Not much any of us can do now.

One important thing I’d like to bring up is about your comment, “Both sides are principled up the yin yang.” Personally I fully expect the U.S. Constitution (private property rights) to prevail over old English law (customary use).

Once again any rational person “sitting on a jury” would not be able to decipher the very arbitrary benchmarks for customary use:

1. Ancient.
How long is ancient? Without absolute quantification wouldn’t it be undefinable? How many real estate contracts are signed with an undefined time element? It wouldn’t hold up in court.

2. Reasonable.
Reasonable is probably the easiest to visualize. Letting ALL dogs on the beach ANYTIME, riding horses on the beach and nude sunbathing all seem reasonable. Yet those activities have been made illegal by the county. In a sense, the BCC “interrupted” those activities - only allowing those that promote tourism and the money it brings. Doesn’t seem fair to dog lovers, nudists and horseback riders if customary use is being argued.

3. Without interruption.
Most BFOs have been pushing back for a decade. How many times does a BFO have to “interrupt”. What is interruption? “Please relocate, this is private property.”?? Posting a sign?

4. Free from dispute
My goodness. Just look at threads on SoWal from over 12 years ago. A lot of dispute going on there (here). Or is the action of dispute defined by someone being arrested for trespassing? We’ve got that too.

In summary, the whole concept of customary use is very vague on its face. No UNBIASED person can come to a determination based on the above CU benchmarks. The Constitution is what holds this country together and the very vague concept of customary use, IMHO, is a direct attack on the Constitution.

Or to tie your comment in, our yin yang holds a much truer principle.

 

[FloridaBeachBum]

How can we turn the entire strip of 30A beaches into a State Park? Each Walton County resident could get a yearly pass included with their property taxes and the State would limit the number of beach visitors to the available resources (parking, bathrooms, etc)

Not sure what you mean by "How can we turn the entire strip of 30A beaches into a State Park?" You mean the (1) strip of existing government owned 30A beachfront? Or (2) all 17 miles of 30A private property? Either way not legal or do-able. But keep coming up with CU alternatives.

"We cannot accomplish the above and have 30A open with no density management and a free for all with no code enforcement, with tourists that feel entitled to park anywhere and end up destroying our fragile ecosystem. We already have huge infrastructure problems with 4 million tourists. What happens when we hit 6 million or 8 million?" Great questions for past and present Commissioners and the former Commissioner Larry Jones. So far Commissioners' answer is customary use of private property. At least the State Parks can charge the public for beach use, parking, and restrooms; plus Parks can restrict public alcohol, and pets. Private BFOs can't do any of those landward of the MHWL with CU.

"Last week the Destin log reported "HIGH FECAL POLLUTION" at Blue Mountain and Grayton Beaches. Guess we know where 4 million tourists are using the bathroom. Our coastal dune lakes are at the highest level of pollution in 20 years." Those are test results in naturally chlorinated salt water. The dune lakes and outfalls, where all the kids play in, with the beach fowl and fishes, are not even tested. What do you think that mostly fresh water is like while the outfalls are blocked? Yuk. Need to get Commissioners' do their duty to protect the public's heath and test Dune lakes and outfalls. They are already testing the adjacent beaches. Makes too much sense I guess.

 

[Dreamer]

Not sure what you mean by "How can we turn the entire strip of 30A beaches into a State Park?" You mean the (1) strip of existing government owned 30A beachfront? Or (2) all 17 miles of 30A private property? Either way not legal or do-able. But keep coming up with CU alternatives.

"We cannot accomplish the above and have 30A open with no density management and a free for all with no code enforcement, with tourists that feel entitled to park anywhere and end up destroying our fragile ecosystem. We already have huge infrastructure problems with 4 million tourists. What happens when we hit 6 million or 8 million?" Great questions for past and present Commissioners and the former Commissioner Larry Jones. So far Commissioners' answer is customary use of private property. At least the State Parks can charge the public for beach use, parking, and restrooms; plus Parks can restrict public alcohol, and pets. Private BFOs can't do any of those landward of the MHWL with CU.

"Last week the Destin log reported "HIGH FECAL POLLUTION" at Blue Mountain and Grayton Beaches. Guess we know where 4 million tourists are using the bathroom. Our coastal dune lakes are at the highest level of pollution in 20 years." Those are test results in naturally chlorinated salt water. The dune lakes and outfalls, where all the kids play in, with the beach fowl and fishes, are not even tested. What do you think that mostly fresh water is like while the outfalls are blocked? Yuk. Need to get Commissioners' do their duty to protect the public's heath and test Dune lakes and outfalls. They are already testing the adjacent beaches. Makes too much sense I guess.

The reason the Fecal Pollution is so high is because large homes that rent to large groups on the coastal dune lakes are still on septic. Grayton Beach, Gulf Trace, etc. Should be mandated that all homes on coastal dune lakes connect to sewer.

 

[FoX]

The reason the Fecal Pollution is so high is because large homes that rent to large groups on the coastal dune lakes are still on septic. Grayton Beach, Gulf Trace, etc. Should be mandated that all homes on coastal dune lakes connect to sewer.

Yes! A good use for TDC funds! 40% of funds are mandated for advertising. But te new law to allow certain counties to use more for infrastructure and and the new additional 1 cent tax in Walton County should take care of it.

I wish there had been a proposal for the Triumph (Oil spill) program funds.

septic tanks and feces

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

At least the State Parks can charge the public for beach use, parking, and restrooms; plus Parks can restrict public alcohol, and pets. Private BFOs can't do any of those landward of the MHWL with CU.

And they can close the gates to cars when parking is full. Walton County TDC just keeps on sayin’, “Come on down, the water’s fine!” And tourists park everywhere, much where they shouldn’t. And the public beaches get more crowded. At least the state parks are self-regulating as to prevent over utilization.

 

[Stone Cold J]

According to one of the Plaintiff Lawyers , the issue of forced occupation of private property against the will of the property owner (chairs on private property) could be in the courts for the next 10 years. What about some short term solutions that don’t violate current Florida laws or the US Constitution until the courts decide differently?

Seems like there is very common ground to do something more about Chair Vendors, in particular on Regional Beach Accesses (public beaches).

Some say cancel the service totally. Some argue there are elderly and paying tourists that add to our tax base that need or desire this service. What about, just between Memorial Day and Labor Day, only the TDC can provide chairs and umbrellas at Regional Beach Accesses and no chair service (Vendor or TDC) at Neighborhood Beach Accesses? The rentals would be provided by the hour with a maximum time limit (3 hours? 4 hours?) and only by an attendant on location at each Regional Beach Access. Once the tourist paid, the attendant would place the chair and umbrella no closer than 15’ to the waters edge (per County Ordinance) and remove them when the time has expired or the guest leave. Also, most importantly, limit the number of chairs at each Regional Beach (40? 50? 60?). Once they rented out, no additional chairs are available for rent until someone leaves. Make the number of rentals available WAY LESS than 50% of the available public beach. Have an a limited edition design on the chairs with the year and sell them at the end of the season and all funds from chair sales get donated to the Turtle Watch program. That way there are no ghost chairs, and during high season there is a paid TDC rep on site to monitor conflict and call for assistance if needed.. More seasonal jobs for our local young people, similar to the lifeguards that are hired for the summer. Plus by selling the limited edition chairs at the end of the summer there are no storage costs or maintenance costs and we are helping the turtles

Chair Vendors would still service private property areas so we are not putting them out of business. It is just the Regional Beach Access not available to them from Memorial Day to Labor Day. And as some argue, we don't owe it to anyone to provide a for profit business on Public Beach Property. Doesn't matter if it is a Chair Service or a Beach Bar.

Also, increase the Vendor Chair fee paid to the county each year and use those funds to dedicated enforcement of chair placement and issues.

Thoughts? What else can be done now that doesn't conflict with current Florida laws?​

 

[Bob Wells]

There was a time that the TDC was selective about advertising. Unfortunately that seems to have gone out the window when the State kind of made Walton TDC start donating to Visit Florida, the State tourism folks. I could be wrong though.

 

[FloridaBeachBum]

Great read for those who believe in the US Constitution; THE highest American law of the land, and beaches, that rejects many of the archaic English aristocratic customs a Revolutionary War was fought over.
Who Owns America's Beaches? - Sword & Scales spring 2019 | Pacific Legal Foundation

PLF tells it like it is unlike some surfer dudes. Founded in Pacific California History | Pacific Legal Foundation Maybe we need a FL Panhandle PLF location!
CA where public population demands have long exceeded desirable privately owned beach supply and "progressive" governmental policies run amok. The future local politics of Walton beaches? Wonder if California has ever claimed customary use of private coastal property and prevailed? Surely if CU could prevail anywhere, CA is the place.
PLF have an unmatched US Supreme Court track record unlike some surfer dudes. 11 Wins at the Supreme Court | Pacific Legal Foundation
PLF helped local property rights attorneys prevailed in litigation even here in Walton County. Florida ends Walton County's unconstitutional land grab | Pacific Legal Foundation

I hope some of the surfer dudes "shared" private-beach property access misinformation is posted so the light of facts and truth can be shown on the surfer beliefs and credibility.
Property Rights | Pacific Legal Foundation
Donate | Pacific Legal Foundation

 

[FloridaBeachBum]

Dave Rauschkolb why do you believe you are right about CU and private property rights and everyone else is wrong?

If you can not or refuse to answer these simple questions I'd say BFOs are right (within the laws and American morality encompassed in those laws) and more credible with facts or prove BFOs property rights wrong with credible verifiable information. Not baseless rhetoric, cute signs, and shout downs that You're Wrong and despicable.

Still no CU answers to any questions asked on this thread or evidence/facts property right positions are wrong and CU positions are right.