Eleven Fla Counties forbid teaching of Evolution

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22717687/ T-Rex was on the Ark

I'm still wondering of all the people who died before Jesus was born, are going to Hell for not believing.

Ugh. This bothers me so much. Evolution is based on science. Intelligent design/creationism is based on religion. Have a science class, and have a religion class. Let parents choose how their kids should be brought up, and place them in the class that coincides with their ideals. Living in the south, there is nothing that I hate more than being preached at about Christianity from teachers. Here is the issue with having intelligent design taught in schools: It could work, if we lived in a perfect, objective world. But humans are EMOTIONAL beings. If they are religious, chances are, several teachers end up preaching at you, and take offense and could even punish your grade wise if you don't agree with their ideals. Or jeez, it could even be wiser to say "Some people believe in evolution. Some people believe in intelligent design. Here are some library resources and websites if you wish to inform yourself more." Religion is too much of a private, personal issue to be lawfully forced upon those of us that aren't religious. If intelligent design is going to be taught around here, we all know it's going to be based off of Christian ideals. Well, they should also be teaching what hindus, muslims, etc etc believe too, if they're going to do that. Or they could just be sane about it, and have an entire class devoted to teaching about what all of the different religions of the world believe, and speak objectively about ALL religions. If the point of forcing christian based religion into schools is to "show both sides of the story," then it's obviously just a ploy to further that sect's cause. There are more than "both" sides of the story. There are hundreds of sides. Teach them all or teach none at all. Evolution doesn't even qualify as a religious belief. It's a theory, that some people choose to believe is a likely one. It has nothing to do with god, jesus, religious rituals, bible stories, etc.

I got absolutely plenty of exposure in school, just from my peers telling me I would go to hell for my sexuality, constantly trying to 'save' me, and preaching at me every chance they got. I can't imagine how horrible high school would have been if the teachers were actually teaching that stuff. It would have just given those kids more justification to harass me. If you live in the U.S., chances are, you have an understanding of the difference between evolution and religion, because your parents teach it to you based on their beliefs.

http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/top100.aspx?archive=1 Please enjoy this hilarious link.

I'm still wondering of all the people who died before Jesus was born, are going to Hell for not believing.

Where in the world did you get such an awful idea? That's just plain crazy.

I'm still wondering of all the people who died before Jesus was born, are going to Hell for not believing.

No all people born before Jesus was born are all now in Heaven. Their timing was very good on this. Jesus did not die for their sins, just ours.

What happens to people in foreign countries that have never been exposed to Christianity at all? They haven't even heard of it. Do they get to burn in hell for their ignorance?

What happens to people in foreign countries that have never been exposed to Christianity at all? They haven't even heard of it. Do they get to burn in hell for their ignorance?

No.

Okay, then why don't you explain to me what happens to them?

Okay, then why don't you explain to me what happens to them?

Because church was canceled this morning because of ice. I'm watching a movie...

Hell is simply eternal separation from God, not punishment for not being submerged in dogma during life (which can be its own form of hell.) If God is truly omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent (which is outside of time, so there is no such thing as "before" Jesus) and omni-benevolent, then the whole point is for all people, even the little pygmies in Africa, to spend eternity with God.

Several places in the Bible speak of general revelation, which is the idea that even if those poor, ignorant people don't have the means to steal a Gideon's Bible from a motel or watch Creflo Dollar on t.v., God reveals himself to them in some way.

One of my favorite Christian authors puts it this way:

"Jesus said, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but my me.' (John 14:6) He didn't say that any particular ethic, doctrine or religion was the way, the truth, and the life. He said that he was. He didn't say that it was by believing or doing anything in particular that you could 'come to the Father.' He sai that it was only by him--by living, participating in, being caught up by, the way of life that he embodied, that was his way.

"Thus it is possible to be on Christs' way and with his mark upon you without ever having heard of Christ, and for that reason to be on your way to God though maybe you don't even believe in God..."

By this definition, I think there are a lot of people I know who won't touch Christianity and its off-putting dogma with a 10-foot pole and a handful of card-carrying atheists who will not be burning in hell. After all, Jesus himself was not a religious man.

p.s. We should probably leave this thread to the evolution debate. This subject has been hit several times. I think it goes on for a while on a thread called "worry." I'm going back to my trashy movie now...

Okay, then why don't you explain to me what happens to them?

this is silly. their beliefs are every bit as "true" and "valid" as yours or mine. what happens to them depends on what they believe. not what we believe.

I have a vision of 2 pygmies shacked up at the Days Inn. Creflo Dollar comes on the TV and one of the pygmies throws the Gideons bible at the tube. Is this part of evolution, or will the pygmies burn in hell?

this is silly. their beliefs are every bit as "true" and "valid" as yours or mine. what happens to them depends on what they believe. not what we believe.

Scratch my answer. I like Tootsie's better.

God is a god of love and forgiveness. Ro 1 says "...what may be known about God is plain to mankind, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse (for not seeking him and knowing him)." Men were saved (welcomed and forgiven by God) by faith before Jesus just as we are saved by faith now. Faith in the eternal God and his plan for mankind. The sacrifices he commanded in the old testament were a reminder to them of their need for God. The sacrifices didn't bring their forgiveness, their faith did. When Jesus came and made the final pure and holy sacrifice, our sins are forgiven, again, by faith in Him. The God who created the world and sustains it can and will do whatever he wills. Who are we, his creation, to question his plan.

That's an interesting answer, Tootsie. So you think that Christians go to heaven and people of other faiths that believe in different after lifes go to the afterlife that they believe in?

That's an interesting answer, Tootsie. So you think that Christians go to heaven and people of other faiths that believe in different after lifes go to the afterlife that they believe in?

that is kind of a simplified view, but to be honest, I don't know and IMO no one else does either.

but my personal belief is that God is God, and he is loved and worshipped in many many ways, from very ancient cultures/religions to our own modern day cultures and religions.

religion/faiths are not even part of the equation, IMO. these are man made. they are important to some. but not necessarily the way to a good life, or to heaven.

that is kind of a simplified view, but to be honest, I don't know and IMO no one else does either.

but my personal belief is that God is God, and he is loved and worshipped in many many ways, from very ancient cultures/religions to our own modern day cultures and religions.

religion/faiths are not even part of the equation, IMO. these are man made. they are important to some. but not necessarily the way to a good life, or to heaven.

I could not have said it better! You are are a refreshingly open minded person!

That's an interesting answer, Tootsie. So you think that Christians go to heaven and people of other faiths that believe in different after lifes go to the afterlife that they believe in?

Almost every religious leader condemns every other religion to some form of hell or punishment, yet if you actually read their scriptures or texts, they don't, so it's not exactly keeping me up at night. :roll:

It IS possible to study both, with the idea that there are many questions left unanswered.

bottom line...

I'm still wondering of all the people who died before Jesus was born, are going to Hell for not believing.

Where in the world did you get such an awful idea? That's just plain crazy.

No all people born before Jesus was born are all now in Heaven. Their timing was very good on this. Jesus did not die for their sins, just ours.

this is silly. their beliefs are every bit as "true" and "valid" as yours or mine. what happens to them depends on what they believe. not what we believe.

Thanks for proving my point, NoHall. It is plain crazy. I got the concept from church, Southern Baptist of course, and they are still preaching it. Mostly, they focus on Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." They too often forget verse 15, "And he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to the whole creation." I believe the idea in the the verses above, is that when the Gospel is presented to someone and they fully understand the concept of the Gospel, and they still choose to reject it, they will be condemned. Those who never heard the Gospels, or those who don't understand the Gospels, aren't condemned, but the Bible doesn't say that they are going to Heaven, either.

Tootsie, many Southern Baptists still preach this, so silly or not, their congregations buy into the idea that all non-believers are going to Hell.

Almost every religious leader condemns every other religion to some form of hell or punishment, yet if you actually read their scriptures or texts, they don't, so it's not exactly keeping me up at night. :roll:

Well, I know many Southern Baptists preachers condemn every other religion, but Hindus and Buddhists do not, so it is a far cry from "almost every religious leader."

Rabble rouser...:roll:

Hey, you are the one who said that the Southern Baptist preachers are "plain crazy." :funn:

Thanks for proving my point, NoHall. It is plain crazy. I got the concept from church, Southern Baptist of course, and they are still preaching it. Mostly, they focus on Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." They too often forget verse 15, "And he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to the whole creation." I believe the idea in the the verses above, is that when the Gospel is presented to someone and they fully understand the concept of the Gospel, and they still choose to reject it, they will be condemned. Those who never heard the Gospels, or those who don't understand the Gospels, aren't condemned, but the Bible doesn't say that they are going to Heaven, either.

Tootsie, many Southern Baptists still preach this, so silly or not, their congregations buy into the idea that all non-believers are going to Hell.

Well, I know many Southern Baptists preachers condemn every other religion, but Hindus and Buddhists do not, so it is a far cry from "almost every religious leader."

And you think I momentarily forgot that? Rabble rouser...:roll:

Well, I know many Southern Baptists preachers condemn every other religion, but Hindus and Buddhists do not, so it is a far cry from "almost every religious leader."

True, they are actually tolerant! My bad! They DO get condemned BY other religions so I accidentally tarred them w/ the same brush.

Have yet to be directed to the Biblical passage where Jesus tells someone they are going to hell or condems another religion, but oddly enough ............ :roll:

Hey, you are the one who said that the Southern Baptist preachers are "plain crazy." :funn:

You're plain crazy! I'm onto you, buckaroo...

Mostly, they focus on Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." They too often forget verse 15, "And he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to the whole creation."

Let me fine tune that comment. They often forget to include verse 15, when they are talking about verse 16. However, they seem to know too well about taking verse 15 and running with it. I think most of the preachers know the grouped meaning, but the followers who go out and "preach the Gospel to the whole creation," don't likely have a solid grasp of that which they are preaching.