Led away in Handcuffs
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many of those properties stop short (northward) of the MHWM. ;-)Dave, I thought you were out of here. Glad to see you back...BTW, nice pic in the Walton Sun.
For the benefit of everyone who didn't see the Walton Sun:
?The beaches are for all of us to enjoy. The edge of the bluff or the edge of the dunes should be the property line for beachfront homeowners. When you pay for beachfront you pay for the view and the risk of being washed away in a hurricane, you?re not paying for the beach behind you. Trying to own the beach is like trying to own the sky. ?The Beaches of South Walton? ? do we need to change the name?? ? Dave Rauschkolb,
Santa Rosa Beach
I just hope you don't start with the desert sand + water analogy stuff from G.G. (Bobby's buddy).
To answer your question, SJ is half right:
"yes, you could walk along the wall since it is on public property"
In your scenario, the MHWL would now (most likely) be at the wall. So yes, IMO you could walk along the wall that was on private property and not be trespassing.
What was the point in asking this question?
He is still looking for the deed of the previous seller to the developer of the existing sub-division. He says that the deed will prove the owner. YIPPIE
'If the ECL washes away, too, then the wet sand, dry sand rule would apply. Then, if the beach is to be renourished again, a new ECL line would have to be established."
As far as I know, unless something has changed, an ECL line is established once, permanently. It will never be created at a different location on that beach again. Once again, the land above the the MLWH can still be deeded to the upland owner, the ECL doesn't change the deed, but the land between the ECL line & the MHWL is now under public control, similar to an easement, which is similar control to the wet sand area
ECL's started in the 70's I think. As beaches get rebuilt nationally, the DEP establishes ECL lines
TDC funds generally pay for renourishment, only if public access is available, but sometime commissioners will spend TDC funds on beaches only residents can access, which is a miss-appropriation of public funds, but the ultimate decider on access is the commissioners.
Last I knew there were state fund available for renourishment, but public access is a major factor
Here on Hideway Beach, vertually no public access, the residents on the beach paid for their own sand. An ECL line was still established and they still ask for people to get off 'their beach'
Call DEP's Paden Woodruff 850-488-7708 on ECL and other beach questions. He's a wealth of information
All the best
'If the ECL washes away, too, then the wet sand, dry sand rule would apply. Then, if the beach is to be renourished again, a new ECL line would have to be established."
As far as I know, unless something has changed, an ECL line is established once, permanently. It will never be created at a different location on that beach again. Once again, the land above the the MLWH can still be deeded to the upland owner, the ECL doesn't change the deed, but the land between the ECL line & the MHWL is now under public control, similar to an easement, which is similar control to the wet sand area
ECL's started in the 70's I think. As beaches get rebuilt nationally, the DEP establishes ECL lines
TDC funds generally pay for renourishment, only if public access is available, but sometime commissioners will spend TDC funds on beaches only residents can access, which is a miss-appropriation of public funds, but the ultimate decider on access is the commissioners.
Last I knew there were state fund available for renourishment, but public access is a major factor
Here on Hideway Beach, vertually no public access, the residents on the beach paid for their own sand. An ECL line was still established and they still ask for people to get off 'their beach'
Call DEP's Paden Woodruff 850-488-7708 on ECL and other beach questions. He's a wealth of information
All the best
Sorry, I didn't mean to dodge you. The answer is..... I don't really know. Everyone else says the county does including the county (Brad Pickel).
A quick reference if it help and showing a simplified version of these lines see http://publicshore.com/special lines.htm
As always find a lawyer for these difficult land issues for help
As always find a lawyer for these difficult land issues for help
SJ, Even if many of those properties do stop short (northward) of the MHWM, it doesn't change my analysis.
The wall is either on public property / easement which of course would allow one to walk along it or the wall is on private property with the MHWL lapping up against it anyway and thus the public's right to walk along it.
After a little thought I think I see what you might be thinking. That is if someone owned property in front of you all the way to MHW line, then if a storm comes and basically negates the existence of their property and is now threatening your property, do current rules regarding that you can't own past the MHW line apply to you? The only logical answer is yes.
But I'm open for clarifications.
No worries, it was late in the day. But you marked it as private so that's why I asked you. I am not trying to read into your statements more then I should, so I am confused. Your map showed blue on those parcels and green on public. What information do you have that it is not public and thus would have you marked it as so. My point is you made the map so do you know something if not why would you expect that there would have platted public easements to private beaches? I am just trying to figure out your logic as it would make more sense to me for the developer to have intended those beaches to be public for sales purposes.
If I wanted to maximize profits, I would have the second, third and fourth row properties to have access to the beach, i.e. it would be publically accessible. This is what Cube McGee realized in Seagrove, Robert Davis in Seaside, St. Joe in Watercolor and Watersound, Leucadia in Rosemary Beach, EBSCO in Alys Beach, so I don't know why you would expect Blue Mtn. to be different. Or are you saying it is privately-owned and yet publically accessible. Once again, I would be curious as to who YOU believe made that distinction. Any insight on what you mapped is appreciated. Thanks in advance!
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So GG says "commissioners will spend TDC funds on beaches....."
and Kris Titus states,
?We are not part of the county,? said TDC Executive Director Kris Titus. ?We are fully funded by bed taxes. The TDC has the ability to drive on private beach; the health, safety, and welfare of the public is to have a clean beach.?
Can someone PLEASE try to explain in simple layman terms how TDC exists in relation to the County? Who has authority over whom?
The Titus quote is misleading in a small way. Her point was that the TDC is not funded by ad valoreum taxes an thus not "part of the county" funding process. However, the TDC IS a county agency and thus answers to the County Commission and their direction, just like the other departments. That being said, the TDC also has their own Tourist Development Council board which is advisory in nature on behalf of the tourism industry.
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