Led away in Handcuffs

[Duchess]

Again, I'm just trying to post here to submit a
realtime report on what's going on down here at the beach.

BMB Vagrant has posted some very kind remarks about me. I don't
know what to say, except thank you. I believe I met you last
fall at a public hearing in a WaterColor conference room about the
RFV lot beach access. Little did I know then how relevant that
hearing was to what is going on now,

Sho', nuf, I was on the beach today, from about 10am to 3pm.
When I say 'the beach', I mean the area at the Blue Mountain
Beach Access between the Inn and the Retreat. I was not
directly approached about property lines but I sure spoke up when I
saw others contacted by the security guard there this morning/
afternoon.

Notes from the front: This woman doesn't tell you she's calling
the cops, she just does it. No one was cited, but the SW Police
did show up and we had a nice chat. Rent-a-cops pretty much
disappear after the Sheriff people arrive, which is probably a good
thing. Again, no 'No Trespassing' signs in evidence, this person
was just enforcing what she considered Florida law. The Sheriff's
agent backed her up about the whole MHW line and wet/dry sand
issue.

Many people (tourists, visitors, random Floridians) joined the fiesta
when I was speaking to the SW Sheriff dude on his ATV. By then the
security guard had conveniently left the area. We had a very mature,
civil discussion about the property rights issues that are so important
to some of us in South Walton County.

In short, it is a public beach access between the Inn and the Retreat.
For all to use, ingress/egress, and set up stuff as we'd like, the law
enforcement on the beach today admitted as much, but he also said
that it's a very grey area and he wanted no part of the whole
enchilada.

The bigger problem is this: like I wrote earlier, several people walked
up to me on the beach when they saw the conflagration going down.
To a person, each was a long-time visitor to South Walton county
who couldn't believe this was happening. Some had heard of this
recent issue, but hadn't seen it in person. So me in my Old Navy
tankini educated many people on the sands of BMB today!

This is wrong. Like I wrote earlier, I wasn't approached today but another
group adjacent to me was. We were situated at the same distance from
the water, supposed Retreat/Inn property lines, etc. I can't emphasize enough how important it is not to lose one's cool when first approached/engaged. Just keep talking! These security guards seem
suprised by the English language, particulary that which may involve
Latin phrases like 'quid pro quo'. Like I said, keep talking and asserting
your rights as a visitor/homeowner until someone else shows up.
You are doing nothing illegal by sitting on the beach reading Vanity Fair and
drinking a Bud Light.

Many, many people I spoke to on the beach not only think this is an
absolute farce, but also said they would rethink their decision to vacation
in Walton county if this wasn't resolved by next summmer. I know this to be true because I asked.

I'm leaving early tomorrow (Wed) so someone else will have to monitor this for now. I'll be back next month, don't fret. More reports to follow....

 

[Bobby J]

Wow! This thread is great! Sorry I have been away. I know BMBV missed me. My quote in the Walton Sun comes from a comment a reporter asked me... This so called "private" beach issue concerns me far more then my RE business. My last post before I got busy at work was, does anyone know of a private beach lawsuit where the HO won the case?

 

[Smiling JOe]

OK, everything west of the 83 is private except for the RFV section which is public all the way to the Inn at BMB.

Am I reading your statement correctly? Are you saying that the RFV section all the way to the Inn at BMB is public?

 

[Smiling JOe]

Our last 2 posts crossed each other, really! Look at the times.

Looks like I read your mind and see where you are coming from. It was just an issue that came up in the past. I may be wrong on this one as I can't prove it, as SJ indicates.

Again, the real point is that there are real problem areas that have these private / public beach accesses to nowhere (that CAN be proven) apparently in the case at the Retreat.

My graphic may very well be incorrect. If so, I apologize in advance.

I'm no lawyer, but I think intent plays a major roll in interpreting cases like the public accesses leading to "nowhere." As you asked in a previous post, why would the County require a public access to nowhere? Need to look at the intent.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Wow! This thread is great! Sorry I have been away. I know BMBV missed me. My quote in the Walton Sun comes from a comment a reporter asked me... This so called "private" beach issue concerns me far more then my RE business. My last post before I got busy at work was, does anyone know of a private beach lawsuit where the HO won the case?

No, not really.

Then why did you even mention your real estate business to the Walton Sun? Once more:

“Without beach access and open beaches I will not have a real estate business. I have used all these beaches for years and will continue to do so. The state constitution says all beaches below the mean high-water line, or the wet sand, are public.”
– Bobby Johnson,
Santa Rosa Beach

Yet your quote in the paper did not include what you just said just now. That is "This so called "private" beach issue concerns me far more then my RE business." I guess you just remembered the real estate business part when the reporter asked. Perhaps you were misquoted.

Bobby, in [ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265935&postcount=660"]post #660[/ame], you asked me "Are you concerned about your property values?"...among other things.

Interesting why you think I should not be concerned with property values (there is no other logical reason for you asking). Remember a home, for many, is their single biggest investment. But being in real estate, you know that already. You imply that I shouldn't worry about my "home" devaluing if the private beach becomes public, that I should just give the land away?

Now you DANCE all around the subject when the tables are turned.

I don't remember asking you "Are you concerned about your real estate business?". Yet that is EXACTLY what you were quoted saying.

Are you a bad guy for caring about your business? Hell no.

Are you a little hypocritical?:scratch:

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

I'm no lawyer, but I think intent plays a major roll in interpreting cases like the public accesses leading to "nowhere." As you asked in a previous post, why would the County require a public access to nowhere? Need to look at the intent.

Remember Sun Seekers?

 

[yippie]

YIPPIE

'If the ECL washes away, too, then the wet sand, dry sand rule would apply. Then, if the beach is to be renourished again, a new ECL line would have to be established."

As far as I know, unless something has changed, an ECL line is established once, permanently. It will never be created at a different location on that beach again. Once again, the land above the the MLWH can still be deeded to the upland owner, the ECL doesn't change the deed, but the land between the ECL line & the MHWL is now under public control, similar to an easement, which is similar control to the wet sand area

ECL's started in the 70's I think. As beaches get rebuilt nationally, the DEP establishes ECL lines

TDC funds generally pay for renourishment, only if public access is available, but sometime commissioners will spend TDC funds on beaches only residents can access, which is a miss-appropriation of public funds, but the ultimate decider on access is the commissioners.

Last I knew there were state fund available for renourishment, but public access is a major factor

Here on Hideway Beach, vertually no public access, the residents on the beach paid for their own sand. An ECL line was still established and they still ask for people to get off 'their beach'

Call DEP's Paden Woodruff 850-488-7708 on ECL and other beach questions. He's a wealth of information

All the best

Well I guess you know more than the mayor and city manager, even though they are very involved in the project.

I thought you told us all goodbye.

 

[montana]

Just seems easier to me?





All beaches in the State of Oregon are designated public recreation areas, and are jointly managed by both the State of Oregon and the local municipalities whose boundaries encompass portions of the beach. The foresight of the State in declaring beaches public recreation areas ensures that our beautiful beaches are free for everyone to enjoy and use, visitors and residents alike. It also means that we all have a responsibility to protect and care for our beaches as common stewards. Visit the State Department of Land Conservation's Coastal Management Plan for more information on how the State is helping to protect and manage our coastal beaches

 

[Bobby J]

BMBV,
I was asked if I was concerned how this "private beach" access would effect my RE Business. My comment was I would not have a RE business if the beaches were private. I also do not think you should give the land away. You do not own it! You can not give something away you do not own. ;-) See quote at bottom of the page.

 

[Bobby J]

I recieved this from Surfrider today via email. I am posting this as a direct cut and paste from The local Panhandle Surfrider Chapter. The reason I disclose this is for BMBV. I do not agree with every aspect of the Surfrider Foundation. They are into the 20' above the MHTL. I think it should be to the vegetation line.

[SIZE=+0]Customary use of the Beach[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]This email is about the beach customary use. This is a statement made by the sheriffs dept. in the walton sun;
"Most public beach accesses are nestled between private properties. Beachgoers should stay within the easement of the dune walkover to set up on the dry beach. Along Scenic 30A, beachgoers who wish have beach set ups outside of these areas must be on the wet sand."
The city of Destin , one month ago, on 13 June 2007 filed an amicus brief in the case of wright v Reed. Destins position is "Free and open use of the beaches undoubtedly preceded even the designation of Florida as a territory of the United States of America.It is difficult to imagine a time when the public did not freely use the beaches of this state for traditional forms of beach recreation."
"While the actual right of customary use should properly include the entire beach up to the line of the first dune or line of vegetation"
The sheriff uses a 20 foot rule of thumb to resolve disputes.
They base that on the 2002 AG opinion. Shouldn't our county attorney look at this brief and decide on an enforcement policy? We do not believe that the sheriff should be creating enforcement policy that might be contrary to law!
CONTACT THE COMMISSIONERS To get them to act now and obtain a legal enforcement policy!!!!
Commissioner Brannon brascott@co.walton.fl.us
Commissioner Pridgen prikenneth@co.walton.fl.us
Commissioner Larry Jones jonlarry@co.walton.fl.us
Commissioner Sara Comander comsara@co.walton.fl.us
Commissioner Cindy Meadows meacindy@co.walton.fl.us[/SIZE]​