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seagrovegirl

Beach Fanatic
Feb 9, 2008
3,885
454
Historic Old Point Washington
Thank you Bob Hudson for responding with the facts. I can understand why people do not want chemicals sprayed in their environment, I mean, who does? Now I understand why non chemical alternatives will not work. I hate to say it, but I find some of the comments by some of the posters to be a bit hysterical and not productive. If anyone knows of a non chemical alternative that has a reasonable application, I would like to hear about it. I wish negative posts killed mosquitos....
 

Billie

Beach Comber
Jul 13, 2007
30
4
Really...no one is hysterical. Is science hysterical? It's proven that other non-toxic alternatives do work. Not according to Mr. Hudson, but to according to scientists. There are many facts here on this thread that do not come from a chemical perspective, but from a scientific perspective. Mr. Hudson and SWCMCD opinion about Cedarcide and non-toxic alternatives, is an opinion untested and unsubstantiated by them. Other scientists, countries and counties using all natural alternatives would disagree with them. Also, why would spraying once a month an all natural product be less cost effective than spraying a neurotoxin 3 times a week this week alone? I understand that spraying varies with the weeks and months throughout the year, but you cannot tell me that an all natural alternative would cost us more. What about the cost of polluting our coastal dune lakes, Gulf of Mexico and entire ecosystem? We are not allowed to fill in wetland areas with oyster shells, but our county does all the time. SWCMCD is somehow allowed to fill all the waterways with runoff of a neurotoxin that kills shellfish on contact. We want to close our eyes as a society to the damage we inflict and then rely on an antiquated system of chemicals that don't even kill the target? Nature is far smarter than we are. The mosquitos have adapted. Permethrin is not protecting us from mosquito born diseases. I asked the question before, what recent tests of our local mosquito populations and their resistant to permethrin have been conducted by SWCMCD? Other scientific journals find a high rate of resistance to the neurotoxin because they have adapted and it has to make contact with the mosquito. Their life cycle is short. Therefore it just lingers in the water, soil and run off to build up in the bloodstream and fatty tissues of our other endangered species (29 in Walton County) and humans. http://coastalconservancy.org/index.php?pagetext=ENDANGERED
 

Billie

Beach Comber
Jul 13, 2007
30
4
[h=3]Please see below in black the excerpts from http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/PermGen.html#cancer. Oregon State scientific community and results from the EPA of the USA.

The U.S. EPA decided that permethrin was "likely to be carcinogenic to humans" if it was eaten. Where to do you think the spray goes? Our gardens, our soil, our waterways and the fish and shrimp we eat out of those waterways.

Can permethrin affect birds, fish, or other wildlife?Permethrin is highly toxic to fish and other animals that live in either salt water or fresh water. Permethrin is low in toxicity to birds, but some aerosol products made with permethrin may also contain other ingredients that can harm birds if they inhale it. Permethrin is highly toxic to bees and other beneficial insects.

What are some symptoms from a brief exposure to permethrin?[/h]Health effects from permethrin will depend on how someone is exposed to it. Dogs and cats that have permethrin on their skin may act strangely, and flick their paws, twitch their skin or ears, or roll on the ground. When people get permethrin on their skin, they may have irritation or tingling, burning and itching at that spot. If permethrin gets in the eyes it can cause redness, pain or burning. If people eat permethrin it could cause sore throat, abdominal pain, nausea and vomiting. People that have breathed in permethrin have had irritation in the nose and lungs, difficulty breathing, headaches, dizziness, nausea and vomiting.
 

Bob Hudson

Beach Fanatic
May 10, 2008
1,066
739
Santa Rosa Beach
First let me state that I never said Cedarside does not repel Mosquitos from a treated area or that it does not kill Mosquitos when used as directed.

I did give the treatment methodology and its reported effective time period based on the data on Cedarcide's website.

I read the posts from "satisfied" users that stated that it worked very effectively when applied as directed. Users stated that they used approximately 2 (two) gallons of the product each year. The price for 1 (one) gallon of the product is $199.95 per gallon. That user would expend $399.90 per year for their property. No costs for the applications in terms of labor are given. At those rates it would cost $400.00 plus labor to treat your property for 1 year.

The average tax paid per residence for mosquito control in the SWCMCD is $23.78.

Please note that I have no idea how many employees SWCMCD would have to employ in order to use Cedarcide as a barrier spray on each parcel of land in South Walton it would require, but I am positive our 7 current spray employees could not accomplish spraying this product as its label instructions dictate in three months much less one every three months.

This product is marketed to "homeowners" not public mosquito control districts.

We have just completed efficacy testing on the adultiside that we use and it is effective at killing mosquitoes.i
 
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Billie

Beach Comber
Jul 13, 2007
30
4
Why are other towns and cities using alternative non-toxic mosquito control? Those are not the figures I read for the cost and quantities needed yearly per our area. I will contact Cedarcide and get the exact numbers. How effective would a BTI only program be in our area? The data of BTI only programs and the success of suppressing the diseases we are supposedly being protected from seems successful. What are the reasons SWCMCD will not consider this alternative of a BTI only program? Where are the studies published of your test results that the public can see? How can you gauge how well the neurotoxin is actually affecting the populations of adult mosquitos? The permethrin may kill some mosquitos in your lab when you directly apply it, but enough mosquitos to warrant the damage caused to humans and the ecosystem at large? I am interested in seeing your data and comparing it to the data to other studies where BTI's only programs exist.
 

Bob Hudson

Beach Fanatic
May 10, 2008
1,066
739
Santa Rosa Beach
Mrs Hyde


Please give me a list of the mosquito districts in Florida or other state that are using "Cedarcide" or other barrier spray products as a ULV applied adultiside.

Please provide me with the raw data supporting your claim that "SWCMCD" has not followed best practices of rotating its chemicals and built immunities to their effectiveness. I have no doubt that can happen, but what is your source for verifiable data to back that claim up.

The price I quoted came from www.cedarcide.com for one gallon.

The quote from a satisfied user came from the "blog" tab on the same site.

Do you use a "non-toxic" product at your home ?

If so which one and what are your incurred cost ?
 

Billie

Beach Comber
Jul 13, 2007
30
4
Mr. Hudson,

As usual, you did not answer one of my questions above. I asked you for your data results and where this public information was to be found??? I did not state that you didn't rotate your chemicals. I will provide you with a US and global list of places that only use BTI and non-toxic forms of mosquito control this week since I guess you don't research that yourself. I prefer any non-toxic form of mosquito control that SWCMCD should choose to use. I just want to see you stop poisoning us all with a neurotoxin up and down our streets. I don't have a problem with mosquitos because I keep my area dry as possible and use all natural products I make myself. It costs my family nothing! I also have a No Spray sign. I grew up in a wetland area in Florida. I understand this ecosystem and I value it dearly.

You again disregard every single one of my questions regarding the effectiveness and safety of permethrin? Why don't we try addressing the really important issues and questions for once?

Just one of hundreds of studies and articles. This one is from the EPA stating that larvicides are far more effective at controlling mosquito populations than permethrin and a successful study at turning an ecosystem around to be a healthy environment in a wetland area. http://www.epa.gov/owow/wetlands/pdf/WestNile.pdf

"US EPA has classified permethrin as "likely to be carcinogenic to humans" by ingestion." It is on our soil, our food, our water we drink and swim in and our aquatic life we eat. That is ingestion.

 

seagrovegirl

Beach Fanatic
Feb 9, 2008
3,885
454
Historic Old Point Washington
This is a post I would consider "hysterical". As usual, you did not answer one of my questions above.....it is not constructive or helpful. You are passionate about this subject and you obviously have knowledge about it. Please be helpful and non defensive. I truly believe Mr. Hudson wants to help and he is stating FACTS. Cedarcide is not feasible, for obvious reasons. What other mosquito controls districts use non chemical forms of pest control? If there is a product out there, as you claim, and it is economically feasible, SWMCD will be using it, IMO.
 

Billie

Beach Comber
Jul 13, 2007
30
4
Mr. Hudson,

I had 10 minutes this morning to collect a few samples of information out there about US cities not spraying permethrin. Many towns and cities do not use permethrin at all. In many areas, they may use permethrin only with reported human cases of West Nile and it requires a special variance to spray a neurotoxin such as permethrin from the city council on a case by case exception.

"Major U.S. cities have banned mosquito sprays for public health reasons -- Washington D.C., Fort Worth, San Francisco, New York City. Cleveland stopped spraying after five of its suburbs enacted bans. Bowling Green, Ohio has never allowed spraying. Many smaller U.S. cities and towns also refrain."


"When New York City sprayed carelessly, targeting West-Nile-Virus-carrying mosquitoes, thousands of fish died, along with the lobsters. Separate lawsuits were initiated by the lobster industry and a no-spray coalition. In 2005 in Minnesota, there was a sudden, massive 'fish kill' of a game fish called black crappie. The only clue was that water samples showed Permethrin, an insecticide which two days earlier had been sprayed against mosquitoes. Permethrin is a 'synthetic pyrethroid' -- a known hormone-disruptor "...leading to reproductive, behavioral, immune-system, and neurological problems" according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS). [Threatened Waters p.11, www.[I]beyondpesticides.org/water[/I]]


"It is remarkable that whole Canadian provinces -- Quebec, Nova Scotia, and Ontario -- now prohibit within city limits all mosquito sprays (and toxic lawn chemicals). This happened because health professionals, scientists, gardeners, and other concerned citizens teamed up with health departments to enact bylaws. After one year, Ontario's urban stream pollutants had been reduced 80%." ["Ontario Ban Results in Major Decline of Pesticides in Water," Pesticides and You, summer 2010]


"Toledo-area Metroparks continue their long-standing policy of not spraying -- to protect public safety, the safety of beneficial wildlife, and the delicate 'balance of nature' in which mosquitoes provide food for birds, bats, amphibians, dragonflies, small fish, etc. ["Metroparks Mosquito Control Policy"] But why aren't all citizens entitled to protect the balance of nature? Why allow 'chemical warfare' against our wildlife, our pets, our children, and ourselves? The cost of human pesticide poisoning and related illness in this country has been estimated at $933 million a year!" [see Pimentel study under 'Scientists' Warnings']
 
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