Redfish Village Beach Access

Meeting at 1:30 this thurs.(tomorrow) at the South Walton Annex concerning Naturewalk's Beachclub. I urge all to attend. I think they purposely pick inconveinent times to eliminate dissent but people should take a hard look at what they're proposing.
20 condos with a private access. And undating the access to the West to allow for a max of 2500 users during the high season. All on 340 ft of beachfront. Will this have an impact in the beach? Does anyone even care?

edroedrog I am confused - I took this post above to mean we could call your office to get details but the post below indicates maybe you copied the notice above and it is referring to a county office?



What makes you so sure?



Do you mean the developers?



edroedrog, you seem to be heavily involved and I appreciate your info but can you be more clear about things? What do you mean about LyingFish trailer park???

I think PBA is his abbreviation for Private Beach Access, but that is a confusing abbrev, because it could also stand for Public Beach Access.

As for the "LyingFish trailer park," he is probably referring to the sales trailer for Redfish Village. I haven't been there and cannot speak to edroedrog's remarks. Maybe he experienced something bad. I do know a few Realtors with H20 Properties who I believe to be the Broker handling the sales, and believe them to be good, honest people. Personally, I have a problem with the sales team getting bashed like they are for promoting a property with plans for a private beach access. The private beach access is beside the point. I am against it personally for several reasons. When an agent takes on selling a development, he or she does so with the nothing more than the developers' good faith in what they are promising. In this particular case, the developer had planned/is planning a private beach access. It is the first thing promoted in their flyers which they handed out, and one of only four ammenities noted for the entire development. I think their intention of having one was/is in good faith. The Broker would have no reason not to think so. It is not a lie to promote your plans for a development, even if the plans change. If the plans do not go through as promoted, that is not a blatent lie. It is a change of plans, for the good or the bad. If the change is a material fact, the seller may be in breach of the contract and the buyers may have a way out without penalty. A lawyer could be helpful in determining whether or not that is the case here. Still, if the Private Beach Access doesn't get permitted, I don't believe the Developer, Broker or their agents were lying if they were legitamately trying to get the private access. In this case, I believe the developer paid well over $8M to procure the two lots in hopes of getting that private access. I believe they are still acting in good faith to do just that. I don't agree with their decision to put in a private access, but that is no reason to say that they are lyers. The developers may have screwed themselves, but their punishment will be in financial terms. This little case should be one for the text books of what not to do. I don't envy them at all, nor do I envy the buyers who intended to sell their units at the closing table. Who will get lucky, is yet to be determined.

I understand if you don't comprehend my point on the developers trying to act in good faith. It does enter a shady bit of gray, but I do believe them to be trying to do what they planned and promoted.

Back to the access, will someone please accurately report on the meeting from this morning?

SJ,
Love your dissertation but facts are facts. ...

SJ-Just curious... If you know H2O how come you have never been on their site? Maybe you need to go by and ask them how they are doing someday. They might need a few positive things said to them these days.

SJ- Do you think for a moment that they knew they did not have PBA(Private Beach Access)? That really scares me to think that the developer was not even being honest with Hot2Sell(AKA H20 Buster). That would make me feel good if the seller agent was representing me and did not have ALL the facts.COLOR]

This one is slightly different than the one in BMB for Redfish Village because the beach in front of Seagrove Villas was dedicated to the public for Swimming Park , on the plat book 2, page 50, recorded in 1950. See attachment of plat. Seagrove Villas property consist of lots 14-17, Blk 7.

So, while the access is intended to be private, the owners will not be dumped onto a short stretch of privately owned beach. In fact, I don't see privately owned beach property within 500 ft in either direction.

I am not saying that this private access is what is needed in Seagrove. I think the reoccurring problem I continue to see is the lack of public parking at public beach accesses to accomodate the public's use of the beach. I can understand the reasons why developments want to provide a way for their owners and guests to access the beach. This problem will not go away until the County or TDC buys or takes property near the public accesses to the public beaches so that ample parking is provided. If the County wants to keep the tourists and the locals, they better get to work at buying property for public parking.

SJ:

You are correct, the issue is parking and will contiue to be unfortunately there are only a few places where the County owns land that is large enough for parking and restrooms. The TDC doesn't own anything, not even the building we are sitting in because we can't buy property. It has to be the County Commission. We are the developers/managers/maintainers of the access areas just like Public Works maintains roads.

One question I would be curious for input on from anyone who cares to answer- building parking "garages" at the existing beach accesses that have parking capability. Please let me preface this by saying there are no plans for this along 30-A so please don't start spreading rumors that the TDC is going to build parking garages at beach accesses on 30-A :nono1: , it is only a question for discussion.

One question I would be curious for input on from anyone who cares to answer- building parking "garages" at the existing beach accesses that have parking capability. Please let me preface this by saying there are no plans for this along 30-A so please don't start spreading rumors that the TDC is going to build parking garages at beach accesses on 30-A :nono1: , it is only a question for discussion.

I haven't stepped foot on the property because I have never had a need to. Heck, I haven't been in most broker's offices, even the ones with which I do business. The hood of my car is my office in the nice weather and the Air-conditioned interior is my office in the hot summer months. (not officially, but that is where I sign many papers.) I am not buddy, buddy with the peeps at H20. However, it doesn't take long, if you are listening around here, to find out who is honest and who you should watch out for. The only people I have ever heard speak negatively of the collective group of H20 Properties are a small handfull of the people on this board who also are against the the private access. I think you are angry (maybe rightfully so) and are just venting your frustration, unfortunately, at the cost of someone with whom you have probably never spoken -- H20 Properties.

As for the what you consider to be lies, I guess we just disagree. With developments, it matters not what you have when you are selling the concept. What matters is what you have at completion, and how that relates to what was presented to you to be the final product. Remember, there is no sale if the buyer backs out because of breach of contract by the seller. I really don't see this as being any different from a developer selling a condo building pre-construction. The promise is made for a unit with particular size and finishes, and the building with particular ammenities. At the time the property is presented to potential buyers, they understand that the building is not complete. Often times, the ground is not even broken. Again, these are reservations for contracts given at that time. If the unit is not built because of lack of sales (for example), the buyer is refunded his money without penalty, and is not bound to the contract. The seller is not a lier. This issue about the lying in this case is no different. Again, I know some of you strongly disagree with this, but that is my opinion. I have listened to your accusation of lying, but you will need to provide other evidence to convince me. I have one better for you. To test your theory on the sales agents lying, report the particular individuals to the Board of Realtors along with the evidence. It is simple to do and easily accessible via myflorida.com
I doubt you will find their opinion to be different from mine based solely on the evidence which you present.

SJ-Sounds like you are a realtor and would have a tip for all folks buying from the Hot2Sell group who are also investors in Beethoven. The percentages are small but the $$$ are large. How could they not know?

Your post above makes no sense.

man, that sure as heckfire confused me. seems like a lot of innuendo, with inside name making

...on this board for all that wants the PrivateBA to go the way the community wants it to. I posted a meeting that they had yesterday that people were very please with...

What is it that you want to know? How could they not know what? That they currently did not have a private beach access? They also didn't have a physical building when they took the reservations (ie-"sold" the units) so your point is ???

Again, I repeat, the units have not closed.

In one sense I agree with you, the final product has not been completed. If purchasing a unit with promised amenities (i.e. beach access, gazebo, picnic tables, bathrooms, whatever else they indicated...) and now the developer is advertising they do not have these things, much less the access, then that is a problem. edroe appears to be referring to this http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2005/07/18/focus1.html?from_rss=1

ok, i'm with you on most of it. help me out with above. and, also what is the jump from new orchard>beethoven?

SJ-Are you saying you do not know who the developer is? How could the post make no since. I am just seeing how much you really know about the things you type about. If you got the LyingFish Trailer Park than you should certainly understand Hot2Sell and the Beethoven thing... Come on

SJ-Oh you probably want me to explain the investor thing. Let's just say that Hot2Sell and Beethoven are sleeping together. And Hot2Sell has some money in the deal too.

SJ-You explained my earlier post to Buster so well that I thought surely you would understand.

In one sense I agree with you, the final product has not been completed. If purchasing a unit with promised amenities (i.e. beach access, gazebo, picnic tables, bathrooms, whatever else they indicated...) and now the developer is advertising they do not have these things, much less the access, then that is a problem. edroe appears to be referring to this http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2005/07/18/focus1.html?from_rss=1

It is not that I cannot decipher your code speak. The part which doesn't make sense is that it doesn't give any evidence of lying of which you are accusing, nor does it have anything to do with this discuss of their quest for beach access.

I wasn't at the meeting but heard there was nothing new. If the developer meets the advertising deadline, they can get on the next agenda for the planning commission meeting Jan. 11.

Apparently the planning staff will tell the commission that there is nothing technical preventing their approval. It sounds like this will come down to a subjective decision about compatibility by the commissioners. If the public raises enough cane and the commission worries that this is a bad idea and could set a precedent they might deny it.

Most likely though they will just pass it on to the Board of County Commissioners (BCC) and let them deal with it. The BCC is notorious for rolling over to the party more likely to sue.

This issue is really absurd when you think about it. Scenic 30A beaches will become walled and guarded with rent a cops all over the place protecting turf and telling people to get off the private beaches. Tow trucks will be everywhere because thousands of cars from large developments and subdivisions will be trying to park near their private accesses.

Today, 80 units at Redfish, tomorrow, 2,400 homes in <name goes here> subdivision. And what's to prevent existing developments, whether it be 6 homes, 45 condos, 22 townhomes, or 234 apartments from buying gulf front property and doing the same thing?

SJ-It has everything to do with this discussion.

I just want the community to make sure they get it in writing that whatever LyingFish Trailer Park says they are going to do they do it. Because once the developer cashes in you will never see them again and the next community will use ours as an example.

Now back to the meeting that happened yesterday? Does anyone have anything yet? I know the stenographer got it on paper and that it has to be approved. How long does that take?