Teardown Home in Rosemary Beach

[AAbsolute]

I do not know if you are talking about the original Architect of record or the new one and I certainly know absolutely nothing about the drawings BUT from what you describe (and I have no idea if what you are saying is correct or not), there was not sufficient time allocated to coordination which is poor work on the part of the Architect - but this does not change the premise of my argument - a good client pays for good drawings - a good architect produces complete and accurate and well coordinated sections/elevations and details AND a good builder executes these per the drawings. In fact a competent Builder would easily spot the discrepancies in drawings and should bring it to Architect's attention way before Construction starts (this does not mean Architect has license to be sloppy).

An architect LEGALLY cannot tell a Builder and certainly cannot tell any of the GC's subs what to do on site or how to build something - they can bring discrepancies and deviations from the drawings to the Owner's attention and ask that Owner act accordingly and notifies Builder. An Architect is paid to observe (some call it administer) Construction BUT they have to trust that details are being executed properly (IF they have been correctly drawn).

You are probably pretty good at your profession and may perform administered work differently than the original Architect of Record on the job this Thread is about. The administered contract on this job was very different from anything that you have described. In this case the Architect was the designer, the co-ordinator of all professions and the inspector of the work. It was an AIA contract. The Architect of Record had their own licensed builder in house as their inspector and a retired engineer as additional eyes.

This Architect would create drawings with page inconsistencies, the builder of record would bring the discrepencies to the Architect via RFI's and the Architect would then charge the Owner for re-design.

I've seen a bunch of Architects put blame to a builder for their own error or ommission, that goes both ways, it's when a design professional knows the facts and shifts responsibility that they cross the line.

 

[AAbsolute]

Did anybody just hear a door open? Sounds like we have a new SoWal.com member. I wonder if they'll join in this discussion.

 

[Chickpea]

You are probably pretty good at your profession and may perform administered work differently than the original Architect of Record on the job this Thread is about. The administered contract on this job was very different from anything that you have described. In this case the Architect was the designer, the co-ordinator of all professions and the inspector of the work. It was an AIA contract. The Architect of Record had their own licensed builder in house as their inspector and a retired engineer as additional eyes.

This Architect would create drawings with page inconsistencies, the builder of record would bring the discrepencies to the Architect via RFI's and the Architect would then charge the Owner for re-design.

I've seen a bunch of Architects put blame to a builder for their own error or ommission, that goes both ways, it's when a design professional knows the facts and shifts responsibility that they cross the line.

Aabsolute,
I am not interested in debating this project in particular because I know nothing about it. And yes, incompetence can certainly run both ways but it does not change the fact that a good competent Builder should look at drawings and try to the best of their abilities to find inconsistencies and point these out to Architect PRIOR to bidding (obvious inconsistencies should NOT be brought to attention of Owner during Construction). That is the responsible way to act towards one's client. That way, RFI's are kept to a minimum and CO's only brought about by unpredicted situations or by Owner request and certainly not to correct an Architect's mistakes.

Thanks.

 

[AAbsolute]

Aabsolute,
I am not interested in debating this project in particular because I know nothing about it. And yes, incompetence can certainly run both ways but it does not change the fact that a good competent Builder should look at drawings and try to the best of their abilities to find inconsistencies and point these out to Architect PRIOR to bidding (obvious inconsistencies should NOT be brought to attention of Owner during Construction). That is the responsible way to act towards one's client. That way, RFI's are kept to a minimum and CO's only brought about by unpredicted situations or by Owner request and certainly not to correct an Architect's mistakes.

Thanks.

Gee whiz, that sounds swell.

 

[Chickpea]

Gee whiz, that sounds swell.

That is the ideal all professionals should aspire to.

 

[AAbsolute]

That is the ideal all professionals should aspire to.

So, How many projects have you worked on in Rosemary Beach? I love an Architect who charges their customer $70,000 for house plans that come complete with 60 pages of drawings and 130 pages of specifications that have been cut and paste from other jobs complete with artifacts of other job details. Then the Architect has to be given complete red line editing of their design by a Building Contractor for free. You do understand what you said, correct? You advised me that when a builder is submitting a bid that he/she should review all the plans and elevations for inconsistencies, errors and ommissions and take the time to prepare RFI's for all of them in writing along with a clear explanation of the plan conflict. This is before they have been awarded anything. Been there and done it over and over and over again. Sure it's the responsible thing for a Builder to do when bidding a new job. I've come to find that the most accurately detailed Architectural drawings out there are McAlpine Tankersley hand drawn plans.

I cut in a roof today that was designed by a well respected Architect that contained several plan view and elevation view inconsistencies. I have enough experience to know that this Licensed Architect drew a beautiful elevation then drew the next elevation with just as much massing work to please the eye. It was on the roof plan view that they must have discovered their mistake, but to resolve the pitch change would have meant big re-work on the primary elevation so they chose to sweep it under the rug.

Amongst the producer's of the world we share the same talk for decades, "Every Architect should have to manually build a foundation, frame a home and trim it out until they really know what they are doing."

 

[AAbsolute]

I remember when the original home was purchased by Finley. It wasn't going to be torn down. All the windows were going to be replaced. It was when they started remodeling the place (i.e. opening up the walls) that all the mold was discovered.
The original windows didn't fit in well with the style of Rosemary Beach and was a driver of why they were to be replaced. LRK is the AIA on the project.

By starting over, the home will no doubt fit in much better to the whole community and the Finley family will know what they have for a home versus wondering if the place will last. A good, long term decision when you can afford it.

ASH, I'm going to have to call you into the fray. I know you have more field experience in window and door installation and detailing than most Architects or Builders and I understand that you worked with window guidlines for the International Code. I have to ask: How many different waterproofing details are there for windows and doors? Which one is correct? Have you ever seen a condition where the manufacturer's install detail does not work in a place like Rosemary Beach? Have you ever seen an Architect specify an install or flashing detail that doesn't work for their own design condition? Can a Building Contractor override the Architect of Record and/or the Manufacturer if their own experience persuades them to execute a different detail? Seriously, Thanks

 

[SHELLY]

A man is flying in a hot air balloon and realizes he is lost. He reduces height and spots a man down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts: "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised my friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."

The man below says: "Yes you're in a hot air balloon, hovering 30 feet above this field between 40 & 41 degrees latitude and 120 and 124 degrees West longitude."

"You must be an Architect," says the balloonist.

"I am" replies the man. "How did you know?"

"Well" says the balloonist, "everything you have told me is technically correct, but it's of absolutely no use to me and I still don't know where I am."

The man below says, "You must be a contractor."

"Well yes" replies the balloonist, "but how did you know?"

"Well", says the man, "You don't know where you are or where you're going. You've made a promise that you can't keep, but now you expect me to solve your problem. You're in the same position as you were before we met, but now it's my fault."

 

[traderx]

ASH, I'm going to have to call you into the fray. I know you have more field experience in window and door installation and detailing than most Architects or Builders and I understand that you worked with window guidlines for the International Code. I have to ask: How many different waterproofing details are there for windows and doors? Which one is correct? Have you ever seen a condition where the manufacturer's install detail does not work in a place like Rosemary Beach? Have you ever seen an Architect specify an install or flashing detail that doesn't work for their own design condition? Can a Building Contractor override the Architect of Record and/or the Manufacturer if their own experience persuades them to execute a different detail? Seriously, Thanks

Why would you want to override the mfg. since that is the source of the warranty?

How do you flash windows?

A true story......I worked on a commercial office building project several years ago. The owner was going to install Open Plan furniture. The architect had difficulty with the layout in a particular area so he found a creative solution: he deleted a column. Now mind you, the building shell was standing, it is just that the column got in the way of systems furniture. You have to admire his creativity.

 

[ItzKatzTime]

A man is flying in a hot air balloon and realizes he is lost. He reduces height and spots a man down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts: "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised my friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."

The man below says: "Yes you're in a hot air balloon, hovering 30 feet above this field between 40 & 41 degrees latitude and 120 and 124 degrees West longitude."

"You must be an Architect," says the balloonist.

"I am" replies the man. "How did you know?"

"Well" says the balloonist, "everything you have told me is technically correct, but it's of absolutely no use to me and I still don't know where I am."

The man below says, "You must be a contractor."

"Well yes" replies the balloonist, "but how did you know?"

"Well", says the man, "You don't know where you are or where you're going. You've made a promise that you can't keep, but now you expect me to solve your problem. You're in the same position as you were before we met, but now it's my fault."

This is great SHELLY! Made my sleepless night!!!! :funn:

Okay, now where were we? AAbsolute and Chickpea.....don't stop now y'all were on a role!!!!