Why our associations matter

[Geo]

The bottom line with the "association" issue for our President elect is this.
People influence the way that we think and relate to issues. We tend to gather friends with similar interests, political positions, religious secular and otherwise. Not always but for the most part. What's critical for us to know, is..
Did these men and others play a part in shaping the political worldview of Obama and if so, will their influences play out in the office of the president?
Time will tell.

If that really is your bottom line then why would you view Obama's association with Ayers as an issue?

Obama didn't gather friends with Ayers.

We spend all this time debating the acts of Ayers (which I am really enjoying)but let's not forget the degree of the association!!!

 

[idlewind]

Geo, I was asking idlewind, not you. I know you would answer honestly.

And you did not think I would?

 

[idlewind]

If that really is your bottom line then why would you view Obama's association with Ayers as an issue?

Obama didn't gather friends with Ayers.

We spend all this time debating the acts of Ayers (which I am really enjoying)but let's not forget the degree of the association!!!

Pretty deep association if you ask me. Obama began his political career in Ayer's living room. That is far enough for me. You do not do something like that for someone you are not deeply connected to. Further, you would not let someone hold a function that important to you unless you knew them pretty well.

 

[idlewind]

Civil unrest and the pursuit of social justice has always been part of this Nations' history. This conversation, which has reverted to ayers again, reminds me of a conversation on this board-- with a very intelligent unnamed poster, who when we were discussing terrorists motivation, brought the Sons of Liberty up-- and described them as terrorists since they were widely accused of tarring and feathering. I didn't agree that technically they were terrorists because the intent was not to kill but to humiliate. This poster raised a good point. One mans terrorist is another mans patriot. So, can one really call Ayers a terrorist since he didn't seek to cause bodily injury? Would you call the Boston Tea Party an act of terrorism -- dumping tea and lighting boats on fire? I suppose it depends on your point of view.

In todays society, with some of the antiquated social inequalities abound, if I had a choice between Ayers teaching social justice or a more radical group spewing propaganda which really amounted to social injustice with an agenda, I'd take Ayers first.

By your reckoning any action can be justified if the individual deems it neccessary or "patriotic." Further, I can do whatever I feel needed to oppose the government as long as I do not "seek to cause bodily injury." Funny though, I have heard people use this same justification to defend their bombing of abortion clinics. Anything goes I guess if one does not have a core of moral absolutes.

 

[LuciferSam]

By your reckoning any action can be justified if the individual deems it neccessary or "patriotic." Further, I can do whatever I feel needed to oppose the government as long as I do not "seek to cause bodily injury." Funny though, I have heard people use this same justification to defend their bombing of abortion clinics. Anything goes I guess if one does not have a core of moral absolutes.

I'm going to have to do a little more research into Ayers, but from what I've read, it would be a stretch to consider his acts terrorism or put him into the category of someone like Hitler, Charles Manson etc.. I look back on the 60s and I think of all the rioting that in total perpetrated more destruction than the Weather Underground. Think of the LA riots in the 90s. As destructive as these were, few would consider them to be terrorism. For me terrorism is something that would instill fear in the general public. The bombing of a shopping mall for the pupose of causing widespread death and destuction and scaring the public for instance. I was only a child in the 60s, but I believe Ayers incident at the Pentagon was lost in the noise. It did not terrorize the nation. The fact that our young men were getting killed in Southeast Asia was much more disturbing to most people. Don't get me wrong, destroying federal property is a serious crime with serious implications. It will get the FBI after you. Let's just not call it terrorism just because it was destructive and aimed at the government.

 

[mossyhead]

I remember the 60's well. My opinion of those protestors at the time was not good. We had men fighting on our behalf and prisioners of war in the hands of our enemy. For these reasons it was wrong. The Viet Nam vets came home to have people treat them poorly because of what they were seeing on news clips. And then the fact that no one was killed because of the weatherunderground was certainly not the fault of those who did the bombings. They were terrible actions & as was stated earlier if Ayers indicated he regretted doing these things it would be one thing, but rather he wishes he had done MORE!

And that is not the only questionable relationship. Rezko and the deals he made to help Obama. There are probably other deals we have not heard about. And Wright, who can deny that he is a racist. Anyone who believes the Obama's sat there for 20 years and did not know this is drinking too much kool ade. Michelle herself would appear to be a racist by her comments and her college thesis.

That said, I hope we are all wrong, because Obama will be our President in a short time & I hate to see our country go any further down the tubes than it already is.

 

[poppy]

And you did not think I would?

My apologies. I did not mean to imply such. It does read as if I doubt your honesty doesn't it? Sorry.

 

[poppy]

Pretty deep association if you ask me. Obama began his political career in Ayer's living room. That is far enough for me. You do not do something like that for someone you are not deeply connected to. Further, you would not let someone hold a function that important to you unless you knew them pretty well.

Red this for a perspective. (where have I heard this word before---hmmm)

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.htmlhttp://www.factcheck.org/elections-..._ayers.htmlhttp://www.factcheck.org/elections

 

[LuciferSam]

I remember the 60's well. My opinion of those protestors at the time was not good. We had men fighting on our behalf and prisioners of war in the hands of our enemy. For these reasons it was wrong. The Viet Nam vets came home to have people treat them poorly because of what they were seeing on news clips. And then the fact that no one was killed because of the weatherunderground was certainly not the fault of those who did the bombings. They were terrible actions & as was stated earlier if Ayers indicated he regretted doing these things it would be one thing, but rather he wishes he had done MORE!

And that is not the only questionable relationship. Rezko and the deals he made to help Obama. There are probably other deals we have not heard about. And Wright, who can deny that he is a racist. Anyone who believes the Obama's sat there for 20 years and did not know this is drinking too much kool ade. Michelle herself would appear to be a racist by her comments and her college thesis.

That said, I hope we are all wrong, because Obama will be our President in a short time & I hate to see our country go any further down the tubes than it already is.

I understand how you feel about the protestors and I think you may have gotten to the crux of the matter with regard to Ayers. A lot of the outrage directed at him is because of his stance against the war. Bear in mind that not all agree with your opinion of the protestors in general. Obviously some crossed the line in my view, and Ayers was certainly one of them. In any event, it's too little too late for you to be lecturing about Obama's past associations. Assuming the worst, which I don't by any stretch, the elction of Obama speaks volumes about the public's distaste for his opposition, their values, and the Republican party base.

 

[mossyhead]

I understand how you feel about the protestors and I think you may have gotten to the crux of the matter with regard to Ayers. A lot of the outrage directed at him is because of his stance against the war. Bear in mind that not all agree with your opinion of the protestors in general. Obviously some crossed the line in my view, and Ayers was certainly one of them. In any event, it's too little too late for you to be lecturing about Obama's past associations. Assuming the worst, which I don't by any stretch, the elction of Obama speaks volumes about the public's distaste for his opposition, their values, and the Republican party base.

It would seem his associations did not matter, but, that is the subject of this thread.

My opinion, Obama is part of the Chicago political machine. And dating back to the 60's I have a low oinion of that.

But I hope my instincts are wrong & he proves to be a good leader.