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Geo

Beach Fanatic
Dec 24, 2006
2,740
2,795
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
and neither did Hitler, his nazi soldiers did...

dd,

I am fairly certain Hitler did kill people. But let's say for conversation's sake that he did not...

Is it still at all reasonable to compare the acts of some Vietnam war protestors (they blew up a statue and then did tens of thousands of dollars of damage to gov't property) to the acts of Hitler who was responsible for the Holocaust- millions of innocent people killed?
 
dd,

I am fairly certain Hitler did kill people. But let's say for conversation's sake that he did not...

Is it still at all reasonable to compare the acts of some Vietnam war protestors (they blew up a statue and then did tens of thousands of dollars of damage to gov't property) to the acts of Hitler who was responsible for the Holocaust- millions of innocent people killed?


Geo, In my view you cannot rationalize such behavior, not matter what the cause, excepting a time of war. When you bomb a building there is the potential for a los of life. Therefore, such behavior demonstrates a callous disregard for human life. If Ayers had expressed regret or remorse for his actions, that would be one thing. He has not and as late as this week continues to justify his actions. Obama had to have known and it troubles me that he would associate with such a person. It troubles me far more that so many smart, honest people try to justify this association just because they like Obama.:nono1:
 

Geo

Beach Fanatic
Dec 24, 2006
2,740
2,795
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
Geo, In my view you cannot rationalize such behavior, not matter what the cause, excepting a time of war. When you bomb a building there is the potential for a los of life. Therefore, such behavior demonstrates a callous disregard for human life. If Ayers had expressed regret or remorse for his actions, that would be one thing. He has not and as late as this week continues to justify his actions. Obama had to have known and it troubles me that he would associate with such a person. It troubles me far more that so many smart, honest people try to justify this association just because they like Obama.:nono1:

Hopefully you don't believe that I personally try to justify this association because I like Obama. For me it has nothing to do with the fact that I like Obama. I would feel the same if we were talking about McCain. Speaking of McCain- I am much more troubled by his Keating association (but I digress and don't wish to further derail- had to get that one in, though)...

I have no issue with a President Elect (dem or repub) serving on a board and living in the same neighborhood as a University of Illinois professor who nearly a half century ago destroyed public property in protest of a controversial war...

As far as Ayers not expressing regret or remorse. Had his actions killed an innocent person I do feel he would have felt and expressed regret/remorse. But as it stands, no innocent people were injured or killed and he feels as strongly today about the Vietnam War as he did then...

I feel fine with my rationalizations. So I guess we agree to disagree?

G
 
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Hopefully you don't believe that I personally try to justify this association because I like Obama. For me it has nothing to do with the fact that I like Obama. I would feel the same if we were talking about McCain. Speaking of McCain- am much mlore troubled by the Keating association (but I digress and don't wish to further derail- had to get that one in, though)...

I have no issue with a President Elect (dem or repub) serving on a board and living in the same neighborhood as a University of Illinois professor who nearly a half century ago destroyed public property in protest of a controversial war...

As far as Ayers not expressing regret or remorse. Had his actions killed an innocent person I do feel he would have felt regret. But as it stands, no innocent people were injured or killed and he feels as strongly today about the Vietnam War as he did then...

I feel fine with my rationalizations. So I guess we agree to disagree?

G

I guess so. For the record though, I am not real crazy about the Keating thing either.:cry:
 

Mango

SoWal Insider
Apr 7, 2006
9,699
1,368
New York/ Santa Rosa Beach
Civil unrest and the pursuit of social justice has always been part of this Nations' history. This conversation, which has reverted to ayers again, reminds me of a conversation on this board-- with a very intelligent unnamed poster, who when we were discussing terrorists motivation, brought the Sons of Liberty up-- and described them as terrorists since they were widely accused of tarring and feathering. I didn't agree that technically they were terrorists because the intent was not to kill but to humiliate. This poster raised a good point. One mans terrorist is another mans patriot. So, can one really call Ayers a terrorist since he didn't seek to cause bodily injury? Would you call the Boston Tea Party an act of terrorism -- dumping tea and lighting boats on fire? I suppose it depends on your point of view.

In todays society, with some of the antiquated social inequalities abound, if I had a choice between Ayers teaching social justice or a more radical group spewing propaganda which really amounted to social injustice with an agenda, I'd take Ayers first.
 

poppy

Banned
Sep 10, 2008
2,854
928
Miramar Beach
Civil unrest and the pursuit of social justice has always been part of this Nations' history. This conversation, which has reverted to ayers again, reminds me of a conversation on this board-- with a very intelligent unnamed poster, who when we were discussing terrorists motivation, brought the Sons of Liberty up-- and described them as terrorists since they were widely accused of tarring and feathering. I didn't agree that technically they were terrorists because the intent was not to kill but to humiliate. This poster raised a good point. One mans terrorist is another mans patriot. So, can one really call Ayers a terrorist since he didn't seek to cause bodily injury? Would you call the Boston Tea Party an act of terrorism -- dumping tea and lighting boats on fire? I suppose it depends on your point of view.

In todays society, with some of the antiquated social inequalities abound, if I had a choice between Ayers teaching social justice or a more radical group spewing propaganda which really amounted to social injustice with an agenda, I'd take Ayers first.


:clap:Brilliant! Mango, you amaze me. I am a fan :love:
 

hnooe

Beach Fanatic
Jul 21, 2007
3,022
640
This is extremely idealistic, to say the least. I never needed to associate with evil, the negative, etc... to not know it when I saw it. No need for PERSPECTIVE here.

You have no, a need no perspective in your life? :dunno:
I guess you were lucky to be born with all the right built in options in life! Congrats, buddy!
 

lerxst

Beach Fanatic
Jul 24, 2008
288
101
Influences

The bottom line with the "association" issue for our President elect is this.
People influence the way that we think and relate to issues. We tend to gather friends with similar interests, political positions, religious secular and otherwise. Not always but for the most part. What's critical for us to know, is..
Did these men and others play a part in shaping the political worldview of Obama and if so, will their influences play out in the office of the president?
Time will tell.
 
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