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Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Reggie Gaskins avatar
Beach Lover
526,499 views2
upload_2019-4-25_8-30-52.jpeg
When you see a PCB or Destin bumper sticker, what thought immediately comes to mind? Probably same for all of us with any time spent here - nice, but it ain’t 30A! Do you remember why you started renting/visiting here? What was it? Remember when you bought your first 30A property? Why here?
Because it was DIFFERENT, right? Remember the words you used to describe it to family and friends as you invited them here? “Private” “Quiet” “Intimate” “Less crowded”. That wasn’t by accident. The entire genetic code of Sowal beaches is because of the private ownership and neighborhood beach personalities.
You could rent “private beach”. You could buy “private beach”. There wasn’t a free for all frat party atmosphere because of unlimited public beach access on the sands. That behavior was regulated by the privately owned property where such behavior was immediately squelched. And yet, by custom, no one was ever “Kicked off” of private beaches because owners don’t do that unless bad actors abuse the privilege.
Walton County has always had more than 50% PUBLIC beach. Still does. That hasn’t changed. There are now deliberately misleading fear tactics out there with scary words like “Quiet Title” and “Privatization”, neither of which have affected one single square inch of public beach, not one. Yet, the mob mentality, orchestrated by local carnival barkers eager for fame and notoriety, and dollars, have mislead the citizens and deliberately tried to divide the community in a shell game of Customary Use.
The fact is that the county outran the capabilities of local Commissioners to plan for growth 20 years ago, and we haven’t improved that talent to deal with it even yet. So the County, in failing to plan beach availability, tried to illegally claim private property as public, without following the laws requiring judicial oversight. The local Good Ol’ Boys overreached their authority and got caught by the adults in Tallahassee. So they then decides to sue 4,800 of Sowal citizens to take their property. That’s right, your tax money is being spent, and a lot of it, to SUE almost 5,000 of your neighbors, and steal what they agreed to purchase at a premium, and have a deed to prove it.
Don’t blame them please, they didn’t want or ask for this fight. They live here and care for these beaches just like you and me. Go meet them, they are truly the eclectic fabric of 30A. The signs they had to put up are just in defense of this new orchestrated public attack against them.
The bottom line is this: The minute you release the public to occupy all of Sowal beaches, you IMMEDIATELY get nasty Destin and PCB problems. How will you feel about that 30A sticker then? Nostalgic? Me too.

Replies

2,312
PoppaJ avatar
SoWal Insider
#452
Pam Hicks is parody poster, get over yourselves.
Teresa avatar
SoWal Guide
#453
Pam Hicks is parody poster, get over yourselves.
I didn't quite get her at first. So brash and deplorable! And yelling all the time.

Most of these private beach posters are posting as someone mysterious here. I wonder if they spew such never-ending alternative facts, grievances and harmful criticism of good people in real life. Or does the anonymous forum name give them cover to say whatever they wish about REAL people in our community doing real work, going to meetings and working with the county.. taking time to help visitors who are being shouted at and kicked off the beach? Helping to explain their rights and our current legal situation in Walton County. What real work have these few guys here done besides daily spewing and whining in this forum while sitting in their Gulf front homes and watching for trespassers? I do wonder.

Bullies are not leaders and not worthy of attention or time. Keep supporting and protecting our way of life. Go out and get involved. You can make a difference in protecting our way of life and our beaches.

If you want to help preserve Florida Beaches for All then please visit their website and find out how you can get involved.
BlueMtnBeachVagrant avatar
Beach Fanatic
#454
Instead of whining and being constantly offended when people in our community don't agree with your private beach stance why don't you go out and enjoy our beautiful piece of earth we all love.

View attachment 77198
I’m not offended at all except for the hurtful and spiteful Nazi reference so far - and that wasn’t here on SoWal. I look at the “source” as well as the “content” before deciding if I’m truly offended. Most CU “sources” here on SoWal....never mind. As mentioned, I’ve embraced being called an ahole: “terms of endearment”. So please continue. It makes me feel right at home here on SoWal after 14 years.
Teresa avatar
SoWal Guide
#4551
As I read the last few posts
You obviously havent read this thread in its entirety........
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy

I wondered how many posts disparaged property right advocates in this thread? I found all opinions without explaining why the poster felt that way; no respectful civil discourse of why.
Posts did not contribute to explaining why an outspoken majority support public use of private property - other than just because - ignoring the ancient English legal doctrine many criteria whose Constitutionally will be determined soon.
Or explain why or why not you agree with the thread - will the public discourse of private property rights and public customary use of private property damage South Walton brand and community? From property owners perspective; if so how do you prevent that given the Commissioners litigation against 4,600 property owners and social media misinformation not based on facts or the law? Seemed like more an emotional knee jerk response to a post someone disagreed with instead of a thoughtful researched response.
Here's the posts I found directed at property rights advocates on this thread alone. How would you "feel" if these were directed at you and how would/should you respond?

despicable distortion
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
badgering
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
condecending and derogitory
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
bullies
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Bullies and stalkers
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Your mother must be so proud!
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
reading this BS
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
you are a stable genius
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Classic gaslighting
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
taunts and manipulation
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
It's propaganda. It's gaslighting.
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Repeated disrespectful posting of Senator John McCain's grave site.
Violating SoWal Terms of Use 3.2 (a) Be courteous. ... will not post repetitive messages, meaningless messages or "spam."
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Exactly what a NAZI would say.
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Quiet title has been used ... in a nefarious way
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
demean
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
BULLSHIT
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
ridiculous ... ridiculous and silly.
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
so full of it. bombardment of total and complete BS
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
bash our community, throw out your weak conspiracies, and crap on this forum.
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
y’all can just keep pounding sand
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
greed and greedy
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
accusations and twisting of facts. It's ridiculous.
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
stalk ... conspiracy website.
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
trolls
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
distorted lie ... narcissism, anger management problems, and delusions of grandeur ... angry buffoon
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
sad babies. Wah! Waaaaaah! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
desperate
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
ridiculous and insulting
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
old rich people ... Scrooge. beach booters
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
get a life ... non-stop propaganda ... ludicrous
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
propaganda ... propaganda ... propaganda ...
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
lie to people
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
shameful title ... dishonest ... dishonest and disrespectful ... propaganda
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
morally right ... arrogance ... bullshit ... insulting ... propaganda
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
gaslighting ... insulting ... arrogant, narcissistic property owners have lied
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Are you a joke? proves you are an ahole.
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
arrogant, narcissistic property owners
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
arrogant, self-righteous, and egocentric.
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Dumb argument.
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
morally wrong and anti-human
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
passive-aggressive, trolling, smarter-than-you attitude ... stir up trouble ... look forward to you getting banned ... right wingers ... troll ... beach hogs
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy

You just need some beer therapy.

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Teresa avatar
SoWal Guide
#4561
I’m not offended at all except for the hurtful and spiteful Nazi reference so far - and that wasn’t here on SoWal. I look at the “source” as well as the “content” before deciding if I’m truly offended. Most CU “sources” here on SoWal....never mind. As mentioned, I’ve embraced being called an ahole: “terms of endearment”. So please continue. It makes me feel right at home here on SoWal after 14 years.
No one is calling you names. The only thing you have contributed here is perceived grievances including links to dozens of posts that you don't like. You keep referring to the nazi comment that was used in a very meaningful, heartfelt and personal way that you apparently can't comprehend so you choose to keep beating up Daniel here publicly. He's not here so move on. You don't have to get it or agree with his statement. You don't have to understand his feelings or his actions.

Relax and have some emotional support beer.

Enjoy the beauty of South Walton out there.

People have much more in common than you may think.

People also have opinions that may differ from yours. That's life.

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Edited

Jimmy T avatar
Beach Fanatic
#457
Pam Hicks is parody poster, get over yourselves.
Yep.You can't really take Pam Hicks seriously. She will probably yell at me for saying that, though.
BlueMtnBeachVagrant avatar
Beach Fanatic
#458
Teresa, what feel good pill did you pop this morning? I want one! Beer’s only available after 5pm by custom.

When you attempt to defend Daniel Uhlfelder’s remark, you obviously have no clue how hurtful to me that remark was. And I understand that because you don’t know me personally. And I won’t let it go until he or Dave R (via proxy) apologizes for it.


Added....And the reason I brought this up Nazi card reference up in the first place, in case you’ve forgotten, is because because of the gall exhibited by Dave Rauschkolb when he started talking about respect on this thread. And I responded, “How can there be any respect when.......”. Remember?


That type of thinkinking on Daniel Uhlfelder’s part is the exact thing that encourages the repeated STAGED BEACH CONFLICTS that accomplishes nothing but antagonize the BFO and the sheriff’s department........Remember the title of this thread?

I will hand it to Dave and Daniel for manipulating readers on social media. And I can understand how you and others can be so blind to the tactics because you want CU to succeed so badly.

I don’t have a problem with an individual wanting CU aside from the obvious legal expense defending ourselves for something that should not be taking place. I just don’t appreciate the villification of private property owners trying to protect their property along with defending ourselves from continued LIES and MISTRUTHS, especially from someone like Uhlfelder pulling out the Nazi card.

Ahole, mean, rich, greedy, selfish, entitled, narcissistic, arrogant, etc., etc., don’t even faze me. After being attacked for 14 years on SoWal, one tends to become conditioned.

Edited

Teresa avatar
SoWal Guide
#459
Teresa, what feel good pill did you pop this morning? I want one! Beer’s only available after 5pm by custom.

When you attempt to defend Daniel Uhlfelder’s remark, you obviously have no clue how hurtful to me that remark was. And I understand that because you don’t know me personally. And I won’t let it go until he or Dave R (via proxy) apologizes for it.

That type of thinkinking on Daniel Uhlfelder’s part is the exact thing that encourages the repeated STAGED BEACH CONFLICTS that accomplishes nothing but antagonize the BFO and the sheriff’s department........Remember the title of this thread?

I will hand it to Dave and Daniel for manipulating readers on social media. And I can understand how you and others can be so blind to the tactics because you want CU to succeed so badly.

I don’t have a problem with an individual wanting CU aside from the obvious legal expense defending ourselves for something that should not be taking place. I just don’t appreciate the villification of private property owners trying to protect their property along with defending ourselves from continued LIES and MISTRUTHS, especially from someone like Uhlfelder pulling out the Nazi card.

Ahole, mean, rich, greedy, selfish, entitled, narcissistic, arrogant, etc., etc., don’t even faze me. After being attacked for 14 years on SoWal, one tends to become conditioned.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere.

Members of our community organizing together and working to support customary use and our way of life at the beach is not manipulation. It is leadership and work on behalf of our beaches and the people who live here, work here, raise their children here, visit here and on behalf of generations to come. You and others here are trying hard to bash CU organizers and tear them down with every post. And using the worst kind of twisted lies possible to hurt our own people trying to silence them and others with such malice. What a shame. It won't work.

I have been personally threatened by someone from the private beach crowd who has my email. And I'm not even serving in any official capacity. But I have a voice just as so many other community members do. We care about this town and it's future.

The beaches belong to everyone. Many people have been subjected to discrimination in this country over the years including who gets to use which beaches on many coasts. There is no nazi card. But there are truthful and hurtful actions excluding groups of people that have taken place in the past on and off beaches. But not in South Walton UNTIL NOW. Our community needs to protect what belongs to all of us. When you have an ex governor of another state come here to build on our beaches who then goes directly our representatives to declare private beaches... Well then we have all have a problem. Because all of us will pay. Most of us will stand up.
Lake View Too avatar
SoWal Insider
#460
Yep.You can't really take Pam Hicks seriously. She will probably yell at me for saying that, though.
I think I have a crush on her...:blink:
BlueMtnBeachVagrant avatar
Beach Fanatic
#461
...The beaches belong to everyone.
Why didn’t you just say so? :-)

There is no nazi card.
Correct...not from you so far.

But there are truthful and hurtful actions excluding groups of people that have taken place in the past on and off beaches
And there were equal and opposite hurtful actions from people who feel entitled to another’s property and by those looking to sensationalize these events on social media BEFORE a judicial determination is made and by those who continue to “deamonize” private property owners for buying and owning legally deeded property.

In the end the private beaches will still be privately owned (not an opinion). The question then becomes if the public will be able to use it based on the claim of customary use.

I guess I’m sure to get a big fat red X from you.
Teresa avatar
SoWal Guide
#462
A
Why didn’t you just say so? :)


Correct...not from you so far.


And there were equal and opposite hurtful actions from people who feel entitled to another’s property and by those looking to sensationalize these events on social media BEFORE a judicial determination is made and by those who continue to “deamonize” private property owners for buying and owning legally deeded property.

In the end the private beaches will still be privately owned (not an opinion). The question then becomes if the public will be able to use it based on the claim of customary use.

I guess I’m sure to get a big fat red X from you.
DEMONIZE. that is what you and your friends here do best. Hope you are having an emotional support beer on me The bar is open. Cheers!
Teresa avatar
SoWal Guide
#463
Teresa, what feel good pill did you pop this morning? I want one! Beer’s only available after 5pm by custom.

When you attempt to defend Daniel Uhlfelder’s remark, you obviously have no clue how hurtful to me that remark was. And I understand that because you don’t know me personally. And I won’t let it go until he or Dave R (via proxy) apologizes for it.


Added....And the reason I brought this up Nazi card reference up in the first place, in case you’ve forgotten, is because because of the gall exhibited by Dave Rauschkolb when he started talking about respect on this thread. And I responded, “How can there be any respect when.......”. Remember?


That type of thinkinking on Daniel Uhlfelder’s part is the exact thing that encourages the repeated STAGED BEACH CONFLICTS that accomplishes nothing but antagonize the BFO and the sheriff’s department........Remember the title of this thread?

I will hand it to Dave and Daniel for manipulating readers on social media. And I can understand how you and others can be so blind to the tactics because you want CU to succeed so badly.

I don’t have a problem with an individual wanting CU aside from the obvious legal expense defending ourselves for something that should not be taking place. I just don’t appreciate the villification of private property owners trying to protect their property along with defending ourselves from continued LIES and MISTRUTHS, especially from someone like Uhlfelder pulling out the Nazi card.

Ahole, mean, rich, greedy, selfish, entitled, narcissistic, arrogant, etc., etc., don’t even faze me. After being attacked for 14 years on SoWal, one tends to become conditioned.
Very sorry if you have been attacked here. That is not acceptable.
FactorFiction avatar
Beach Fanatic
#464
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019 ... 24 25 26

Replies:
511
Views:
19,667
For what it's worth, I joined this group over 3 years ago. When I joined, I saw that most people, other than staff, had fictional names. I didn't know why they used fictional names, but I followed suit. Now I know why. I don't know what the intention of this forum was when it was created, but it seems clear to me now why people don't use their real names in most cases. People enjoy being keyboard warriors, but not having to own up to their hostile remarks. Or, even if they are polite and respectful, they are subject to name calling, belittling, and other verbal attack. Putting all that aside, this post has generated more views and replies for this site than any I can recall in my time on the site. At least it's good for your site metrics, so maybe it isn't all bad even if you disagree with most of the people who have spoken up.
Teresa avatar
SoWal Guide
#465
Oh there are bigger threads and much more honest and constructive.

The forum was created to provide a place for people to share their beach experiences including during and after hurricane and storms. To share. To ask and answer questions about our community. To allow you the reader to decide what you want from the forum. Fifteen years and thousands of posts later on every topic... This may be the very first Alternative Reality thread. Congratulations.
FactorFiction avatar
Beach Fanatic
#466
Not sure why you edited out the Penis cake as your example, but I did go check it out. Amusing for sure. I guess honest and constructive is a matter of perspective. I think there are people on both sides of this issue that are honest and constructive and some of them spoke up here. There are also people who have beliefs that don't coincide with facts and no amount of proof will change those beliefs. The whole point of this thread seemed to be about our 30A Legacy. One thing that seems pretty clear is that this conflict will not improve the 30A Legacy no matter how it is ultimately resolved by the courts.
Beach Fanatic
#467
I agree FactorFiction if I can tweek your wording a bit. The CU conflict will not improve the legacy of the beaches of Walton County.

30A and South Walton are relatively recent monikers for the area. Hardly legacy unless you are subject to marketing campaigns.
BlueMtnBeachVagrant avatar
Beach Fanatic
#468
....The forum was created to provide a place for people to share their beach experiences including during and after hurricane and storms. To share. To ask and answer questions about our community. To allow you the reader to decide what you want from the forum. Fifteen years and thousands of posts later on every topic... This may be the very first Alternative Reality thread. Congratulations.
What a tease!
I thought you were taking the high road, you know, reaching out just a little, pointing out common ground. But then I was hit with your “Alternative Reality” comment and a “Congratulations” and then I realize that it’s just business as usual.
FactorFiction avatar
Beach Fanatic
#469
I agree FactorFiction if I can tweek your wording a bit. The CU conflict will not improve the legacy of the beaches of Walton County.

30A and South Walton are relatively recent monikers for the area. Hardly legacy unless you are subject to marketing campaigns.

Point taken. I guess 30A only counts back to around 1960 and the other monikers much more recently.
BeachSandpiper avatar
Beach Comber
#470
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019 ... 24 25 26

Replies:
511
Views:
19,667
For what it's worth, I joined this group over 3 years ago. When I joined, I saw that most people, other than staff, had fictional names. I didn't know why they used fictional names, but I followed suit. Now I know why. I don't know what the intention of this forum was when it was created, but it seems clear to me now why people don't use their real names in most cases. People enjoy being keyboard warriors, but not having to own up to their hostile remarks. Or, even if they are polite and respectful, they are subject to name calling, belittling, and other verbal attack. Putting all that aside, this post has generated more views and replies for this site than any I can recall in my time on the site. At least it's good for your site metrics, so maybe it isn't all bad even if you disagree with most of the people who have spoken up.
I agree. I am new to this forum, and after reading several threads and responses decided to create an account so I could reply. The majority of responses were by people with fun beach names, so I followed suit to create my profile. There was nothing secretive about this. I enjoy reading the different opinions- just not the personal bashing and name calling. Thanks for pointing out the satire... while it is not my style, I now understand what Pam Hicks was trying to accomplish, even if I disagree with her.
FloridaBeachBum avatar
Beach Fanatic
#4711
Every time I read Tona-Rama (T-R) I understand a little better what T-R was and was not. I think I understand the doctrine of public customary use of private property better now than the first time I read T-R. I have a layman’s understanding of the principles of property rights and public customary use of private property, not the technical legal proceedings, but I think not being an attorney can be a good thing. Laypersons are not wrapped up the legal processes and bureaucracy and can focus on the facts. This post is for private property owners who hear over and over that T-R legalized customary use of Florida private beachfront. Property owners should consider the credibility of the sources that state anything other than T-R was prescriptive easement case that recognize the doctrine of custom but created more questions than answers. If you dispute any fact or disagree; please reply with your own alternative facts, not with emotional shout-downs or at least have some verifiable information for your opinions please. The credibility of the posts depends on it.

Facts.
1974. The plaintiff Tona-Rama, Inc. lost their litigation in the FL Supreme court!

1. Tona-Rama was litigation between two (2) private commercial beachfront businesses on Daytona Beach, Plaintiff Tona-Rama, Inc. (T-R) and Defendant McMillan and Wright, Inc. (M&W).

2. M&W owned 15,300 sq ft of private commercial beach to the Mean High Water Line (MHWL) with a 1,050 foot for profit pier. M&W had owned the property for more than 65 years! M&W provided such attractions as fishing space, helicopter flights, dances and sky lift.

3. October 1969 M&W and the City of Daytona Beach petitioned and obtained a permit to build a $125,000, 176 ft high, 75 ft diameter (225 sq ft ), for profit observation tower [Space Needle], on of private beachfront accessible from the M&W amusement pier.

4. After beach construction started next to the M&W private pier but before completion of the Space Needle tower; the Attorney General of Florida and Tona-Rama, Inc., a rival beach tower owner, filed for a declaratory judgment as to ownership of the land and for injunctive relief restraining M&W from building their competing amusement tower.

5. The trial court refused to issue T-R a temporary injunction and the tower was completed.

6. The court then entered summary judgment for plaintiffs [T-R], finding that the public had acquired a prescriptive right to use M&W private land as a bathing beach, thoroughfare, recreation area and playground, the City of Daytona Beach had improperly granted the building permit.

7. The corporation [M&W] was ordered by the court to remove the M&W observation tower but was allowed to continue construction under appeal.

8. The district court of appeal affirmed the finding of the trial court public prescriptive easement [T-R prevails] on M&W private property, despite M&W’s contention that public use of the dry sand area was not sufficiently adverse to the owner's interest to raise a prescriptive easement.

9. Appeal case was certified to FL Supreme Court as being one which passes on a question of great public interest.

10. The Florida Supreme Court (FSC) found that the public had NOT gained a prescriptive right to M&W private propriety. Declaring that existing public uses of the beach were "consistent" with erection of the private M&W tower. FSC dictum; “neither the trial court, nor the District Court, reached the other requirement for prescription to be properly effective adverse possession inconsistent with the owner's use and enjoyment of the land.”

“The use of the property by the public was not against, but was in furtherance of, the interest of the defendant owner. Such use was not injurious to the owner and there was no invasion of the owner's right to the property. Unless the owner loses something, the public could obtain no easement by prescription. J.C. Vereen & Sons v. Houser, supra.”

11. The [FSC] decision of the District Court of Appeal is quashed and this cause is remanded to the District Court with instructions to further remand the same to the trial court for the purpose of entering final judgment for defendant [M&W]. T-R loses and M&W tower prevails and the public had no right of access to the private property and the M&W tower could remain.

Observations.

But wait! .... FSC also cites Tiffany Real Property, (Third Edition), Vol. 3 English common law customary use doctrine (pp. 623-624)! To justify the public having public access to private property despite no prescriptive easement on M&W private beach.
From Tiffany; the custom, to be valid, [1] 'must have continued from time immemorial, [2] without interruption, and [3] as of right; [4] it must be certain as to the place, and [5] as to the persons; and it must be [6] certain and [7] reasonable as to the subject matter or rights created.'
Where did the ancient English customary use doctrine come from in a prescriptive easement litigation??? None of the parties brought up public customary use rights.

Tona-Rama was a public prescriptive easement litigation and the FSC just declared there was NO public prescriptive easement right on M&W private beachfront property and M&W could keep in place the $125,000 for profit Space Needle tower on their 225 sq ft of private beach based on the evidence for and against a public prescriptive easement. Done.

Where was the legal evidence presented of public customary use of M&W private property! There was NONE. The FSC for the first time ever discussed or recognized in the dicta the doctrine of Customary Use in Tona-Rama dicta, sua sponte [Latin term usually applied to actions by a judge taken without a prior motion or request from the parties].

FSC immediately states following Tiffany; “If the recreational use of the sandy area adjacent to mean high tide has been [1] ancient, [2] reasonable, [3] without interruption and [4] free from dispute, such use, as a matter of custom, should not be interfered with by the owner.” That’s not what Tiffany says! Where’s Tiffany’s and Blackstone’s [3], [4], [5], and [6]? What does customary “free from dispute” mean?

Even Walton’s customary use attorney [and Destin’s 2002 attorney] David Theriaque September 2018 presentation cites English Sir William Blacksone 1765-1770 English common law “Commentaries” seven (7) custom criteria and describes them from Thornton v Hay.
2018 Theriaque CU Criteria small.jpg

That is NOT FSC interpreting common law; that’s making new uncommon law from the bench.

Importantly, the FSC in its 1974 dicta never discussed whether the doctrine of Customary Use was consistent with the U.S. Constitution (5th and 14th Amendments) or FL Statute section 2.01, (enacted Nov. 6, 1829): The common and statute laws of England which are of a general and not a local nature, with the exception hereinafter mentioned, down to the 4th day of July, 1776, are declared to be of force in this state; provided, the said statutes and common law be not inconsistent with the Constitution and laws of the United States and the acts of the Legislature of this state.

The Florida Supreme Court overruled the lower courts and Tona-Rama lost and M&W was able to keep the Space Needle tower. Because there was NO adverse public possession of private beachfront and NO public prescriptive rights to M&W private property.

Then just in case we wanted to know the FSC court out of the blue brings up an arcane old English common law of custom, removes 4 of the 7 common law criteria, and makes up a new law criteria. To justify public use of private property with no evidence of public customary use when no prescriptive right was found?

So before property owners listen to the CU agenda on the 1974 FSC Tona-Rama and the dicta, you might read the details of the 1974 Tona-Rama case and the Constitutional challenge in front of Judge Green now and likely the Appeals, FSC, and US Supreme Court. All upper courts that have more conservative-justices than not that should interpret the old English common law of custom and whether it is repugnant to the US Constitution; not make it up as they go.

It’s only going to take multi-millions of Walton tax payers dollars to find out the facts in court and many years of and anti-social media ill will. CUnCourt.

If you dispute any fact or disagree; please reply with your own alternative facts, not with emotional shout-downs or at least have some verifiable information for your opinions please. The credibility of your posts depends on it.

Note. Dicta. The plural form of dictum. Term generally used to describe a court's discussion of points or questions not raised by the record or its suggestion of rules not applicable in the case at bar. Judicial dictum is an opinion by a court on a question that is not essential to its decision even though it may be directly involved.

Post sources available upon request.
Florida Coastal Property Rights

Edited

jodiFL avatar
Beach Fanatic
#472
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019 ... 24 25 26

Replies:
511
Views:
19,667

For what it's worth, I joined this group over 3 years ago. When I joined, I saw that most people, other than staff, had fictional names. I didn't know why they used fictional names, but I followed suit. Now I know why. I don't know what the intention of this forum was when it was created, but it seems clear to me now why people don't use their real names in most cases. People enjoy being keyboard warriors, but not having to own up to their hostile remarks. Or, even if they are polite and respectful, they are subject to name calling, belittling, and other verbal attack. Putting all that aside, this post has generated more views and replies for this site than any I can recall in my time on the site. At least it's good for your site metrics, so maybe it isn't all bad even if you disagree with most of the people who have spoken up.

This thread doesnt even come close to Blue Tick Pup.....
Beach Fanatic
#473
This thread doesnt even come close to Blue Tick Pup.....
I want one please let me know where to pick up.
Lake View Too avatar
SoWal Insider
#474
Replies:
511
Views:
19,667


When you compare the ratio of these figures you get 0.025 as a "toxicity index" (the amount of people that are curious compared to the amount of people that want to contribute).As a comparison, the next most toxic thread, "Welcome to Trump's America", has a "toxicity index" of .130. Don't ya just love a train wreck?
Dave Rauschkolb avatar
Beach Fanatic
#475
This thread doesnt even come close to Blue Tick Pup.....

That's hilarious; good point JodiFL. Here you have the same 6 or 8 people talking in circles in this echo chamber of a thread. 20,000 views. Ha ha. Estimate 19,700 are of them reading their own stuff and replying to their own stuff. I would not exactly call this a "high engagement" thread by any stretch of the imagination. Reminds me of someone with 42 twitter followers. Where are the 6500 adoring fans representing and appreciating the viewpoints expressed? Another echo chamber there as well. "Just a handful."

Edited

BlueMtnBeachVagrant avatar
Beach Fanatic
#476
That's hilarious......
the same 6 or 8 people talking in circles in this echo chamber of a thread. 20,000 views. Ha ha. ....
Is it just me?

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