The Trouble with Islam

[30gAy]

http://www.counterpunch.org/taylor05232006.html
check this description out of "young christian warriors" in the U.S.
If you would like to concede that this fanatical fringe group of Christians represent all Christians, then I would be happy to agree with your broad generalizations about 1 billion muslims drawn from an article about one group of fanatical Muslims.
Be careful not to confuse Arab/American politics with Islam. Just as W and his cabal have characterized our war in the middle east as some sort of good vs. evil ( with God on our side) struggle, similar leaders in the middle east have simply done the same thing; cloaking their agendas in religious fanaticism.

:clap_1: :clap_1: :clap_1: :clap_1: :clap_1: :clap_1: :clap_1: :clap_1:

Very well put. Anyone want to rename this thread "The Trouble with Generalizations"?

 

[Smiling JOe]

anybody whose been to isreal even once know this...

i've seen how christian and jews treat sacred sites of other religions and i've seen how muslim folk treat sacred sites of other religions.

while the christians and jews respect other religions, muslims will slap a mosque even on the temple ground of isreal (the most holy site to all jews) and refuse to let jews ever enter there.

You don't know your history. Maybe that is what you see in today's world, but it has not always been that way.

 

[Smiling JOe]

"...As a matter of fact, the entire system into which you were born and which now, upon completion of high (high?) school you must perhaps face more directly, is a system designed to trap you- and manipulate you as a co-operating slave, a system designed to steep you in Hell.

Hell is living in your fears, and it is through fear, both
subtle and overt, that the system traps you. Fear of failure, fear of social rejection, fear of poverty, fear of punishment, fear of death.

For example, we are taught to fear something called Communism, and millions of Americans go to bed every night wondering if Mao Tse Tung is under their bed. Conversely, on the other side of the world millions of Russians and Chinese go to bed wondering if Henry Kissenger is under their bed. Our totalitarian government uses the hoax of the threat of Communism to control and enslave us, just as the totalitarian Communist governments use the hoax of the threat of capitalism to control and enslave their people. It's an extremely old and obviously effective trick.

You see, the powers behind Communism and the powers behind Capitalism are virtually the same people. We might also include the powers behind the Vatican and the powers behind Islam. Their main function is to mystify the popular mind by creating illusions of omnipotence and omniscience with which to command docility from their subjects, although it does not require much thorough investigation to discover that few of the peoples of this world are happy, healthy, or fulfilled...."

Tom Robbins

 

[Teresa]

"The Trouble with Scotland is it's full of Scots".

love me some scots...

 

[InletBchDweller]

http://www.counterpunch.org/taylor05232006.html
check this description out of "young Christian warriors" in the U.S.
If you would like to concede that this fanatical fringe group of Christians represent all Christians, then I would be happy to agree with your broad generalizations about 1 billion Muslims drawn from an article about one group of fanatical Muslims.
Be careful not to confuse Arab/American politics with Islam. Just as W and his cabal have characterized our war in the middle east as some sort of good vs. evil ( with God on our side) struggle, similar leaders in the middle east have simply done the same thing; cloaking their agendas in religious fanaticism.

" read books" You should try to discuss without being a jerk. Read the Bible and brush up on your evangelical literature. Why don't you read my article on Mr. Luce and open your mind before responding about insane posts. Typical bigoted response. Instead of discussing or defending radical Christian right views you choose to simply deem my opinion insane. Your views of Islam seem to come right off of that ridiculous morning FOX news show.
Your point that Islam is a political ideology is exactly what I was saying. People in Muslim countries have used religion to forward their political agendas- no doubt. This is hardly newsworthy. Bush has done the exact same thing. He has framed the War in Iraq as many things but one is clearly as a war where God is on his side.
For further reading, you may want to enlighten yourself regarding the Christian rights belief in the return of Jesus/ rapture/return of the Jews to Palestine cult. Great story but hardly something to base a foreign policy on.

rancid,
first off since I am of Irish decent I am all but too familiar with Christian terrorism. Now with that being said the past is of no relevance to the terrorists we face today. I will specifically address the "Bush hater"
who allows this blind hatred to skew the actual truth about the Geo-political situation that we so gravely face. Generally "progressives" (as they call themselves) are some of the most intolerant among us. The sad reality is that the Muslim extremist will be "off with the heads" of progressives first. This one reality has caused me to often wonder why the progressive culture would prefer to engage the enemy with words instead of bullets. All that being said, most every war currently occurring on our planet has an Islamic connection.

I will end with this statement --most Muslims are not terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslims.

 

[30A Skunkape]

" read books" You should try to discuss without being a jerk. Read the Bible and brush up on your evangelical literature. Why don't you read my article on Mr. Luce and open your mind before responding about insane posts. Typical bigoted reponse. Instead of discussing or defending radical Christian right views you choose to simply deem my opinion insane. Your views of Islam seem to come right off of that ridiculous morning FOX news show.
Your point that Islam is a political ideology is exactly what I was saying. People in Muslim countries have used religion to forward their political agendas- no doubt. This is hardly newsworthy. Bush has done the exact same thing. He has framed the War in Iraq as many things but one is clearly as a war where God is on his side.
For further reading, you may want to enlighten yourself regarding the Christian rights belief in the return of Jesus/ rapture/return of the Jews to Palestine cult. Great story but hardly something to base a foreign policy on.

I think you are confusing me with 6th Gen. I said your post was inane. Upon further review, I was correct. But those snake handlers do make me nervous, I tell you what.

 

[Smiling JOe]

I wonder if the twenty something people who were killed at Virginia Tech this morning were shot by Muslims, or maybe they were shot by crackers.

 

[rancid]

rancid,
first off since I am of Irish decent I am all but too familiar with Christian terrorism. Now with that being said the past is of no relevance to the terrorists we face today. I will specifically address the "Bush hater"
who allows this blind hatred to skew the actual truth about the Geo-political situation that we so gravely face. Generally "progressives" (as they call themselves) are some of the most intolerant among us. The sad reality is that the Muslim extremist will be "off with the heads" of progressives first. This one reality has caused me to often wonder why the progressive culture would prefer to engage the enemy with words instead of bullets. All that being said, most every war currently occurring on our planet has an Islamic connection.

I will end with this statement --most Muslims are not terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslims.

Depends how you define terrorist. Ask the 100,000 or so dead Iraqis who a terrorist is. The confusion in the U.S is regarding warfare. We think that if we declare war and then go and kill civilians, that is not terrorism . I believe we call that collateral damage and prefer not to keep a number tally or body count of that. The rest of the World that does not have our military might does not see it that way.

I think your statement about the past having no relevance in todays world is a bit shortsighted. If we had more insight into our meddling in the Middle East over the last 100 years , we would perhaps not be in the quagmire we sadly find ourselves.
The irony of our funding and arming of the Mujahadeen in the 1980's (when it suited our Cold War strategy- I believe they were called freedom fighters then) and their current status as the Taliban (now our evil nemesis) is not lost on most students of history.
Our arming and funding of Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran also later came back to bite us in the **s. Our funding of Pakistan is one small coup away from turning into another mess.
Read further back into your past history and learn how the CIA overthrew a legitimately elected government in Iran b/c of our fear of communism. Our installation of the Shah led to the religious backlash of Ayatollah Khomeini
I won't even get into the Palestinian/Israeli issue
I would suggest to you that almost every current war can also be traced back to Western involvement in those areas. It is a complicated world , one that can be better understood if we acknowledge the complexities and leave out words like good, evil, and terror and discuss the real issues.

 

[Bob]

I wonder if the twenty something people who were killed at Virginia Tech this morning were shot by Muslims, or maybe they were shot by crackers.

I think the crackers were on the recieving end today.

 

[Bob]

Depends how you define terrorist. Ask the 100,000 or so dead Iraqis who a terrorist is. The confusion in the U.S is regarding warfare. We think that if we declare war and then go and kill civilians, that is not terrorism . I believe we call that collateral damage and prefer not to keep a number tally or body count of that. The rest of the World that does not have our military might does not see it that way.

I think your statement about the past having no relevance in todays world is a bit shortsighted. If we had more insight into our meddling in the Middle East over the last 100 years , we would perhaps not be in the quagmire we sadly find ourselves.
The irony of our funding and arming of the Mujahadeen in the 1980's (when it suited our Cold War strategy- I believe they were called freedom fighters then) and their current status as the Taliban (now our evil nemesis) is not lost on most students of history.
Our arming and funding of Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran also later came back to bite us in the **s. Our funding of Pakistan is one small coup away from turning into another mess.
Read further back into your past history and learn how the CIA overthrew a legitimately elected government in Iran b/c of our fear of communism. Our installation of the Shah led to the religious backlash of Ayatollah Khomeini
I won't even get into the Palestinian/Israeli issue
I would suggest to you that almost every current war can also be traced back to Western involvement in those areas. It is a complicated world , one that can be better understood if we acknowledge the complexities and leave out words like good, evil, and terror and discuss the real issues.

rancid, Like Bush, most war hawks are "not inquisitive". They would rather tap into that hillbilly rage, than try to figure out what went wrong and why. A good starting point would be mandatory 20th century history classes for everyone. Unfortunately that would presuppose literacy. A good starting point for our foreign policy would be, leave people alone, and realize it's easier to start wars than to end them.