Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

[FloridaBeachBum]

mputnal, I’ll give you credit for creativity and imagination but ZERO for CU beliefs credibility. You do not even believe that by FL Statute definition BPOs have ownership of the sand and all property rights that go with it landward of the MHWL. So how credible can your grand metaphysical class-warfare ramblings beliefs be?
#1994 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

There has been “no coincidence in the sudden change”. How long have you been a part of this south Walton “community” and what county do you reside? Because you have not been here as long as we have owned BF or read SoWal before or just don’t believe the local CU history since 2002; almost 18 years ago.

#29 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Dave Rauschkolb said: “This is the most ridiculous comment. No one ever spoke of our beaches being private until a few years ago when this nonsense started.” WRONG again.

Proposed bill could void Walton County's customary use ordinance
“False. Customary use as been litigated and an issue in Walton long before now. Ask Walton’s $425/hr land use attorney, Mr. Theriaque, about Meyer v. Apollo and Destin's 2002 veiled attempt to declare customary use. 2003 Walton Beach ordinance, customary use was considered and rejected by commissioners. 2007 Walton commissioners directed County Attorney to draft a customary use ordinance and failed to enact it.”

Mike Huckabee’s role in pushing controversial beach access law
When did customary use first discussed on the Emerald Coast? Not “suddenly”.

Supporting Property Rights
May 2007 How Property Ownership Changes Your World View
Harvard Business School by Julia Hanna

mputnal said: “So who are the few individuals?” 650+ of the 1,193 beachfront parcels (estimated 2,200 individual BPOs) who have intervened as Defendants in Commissioners’ litigation. Hardly a few individuals. What about the 84% of the FL Legislators who voted for FS163.035 BPO CU due process? House Bill 631 (2018) - The Florida Senate

I’ll give you credit for creativity and imagination but ZERO for credibility of your unsubstantiated beliefs.

 

[FloridaBeachBum]

Why do BPOs feel compelled to use pseudonyms? Because of CU believers civil discourse like this Mike Huckabee’s role in pushing controversial beach access law and staged trespass on BPO property by CU believer attorney and others or frivolous police reports filed against BPO but not known CU believer active shooter videos.

 

[kayti elliott]

The CU believers don't want anyone to use Pseudonyms but the CU believers. Maybe the administrators should ban all BFOs and those who agree with the BFOs from using pseudonyms. After all, no one ever accused SoWal of being unbiased.

 

[Alex Miles]

"EXCLUSIVITY"
(A thoughtful topic for the dinner table)

Before you get caught up adamantly defending the feel-good "customary use" campaign (innocent sounding label, right? Such a cute sticker they gave us at their affidavit blitz, right?), honestly ask yourself these 10 questions:

1. Do I agree beach density will eventually need to be managed so that the beach ambiance is not ruined for everybody?
2. Do I agree eventually there is some threshold?
3. Who gets to decide the threshold? Restauranteur empire-builders? Transient vacation rental investors? Bed tax collectors? Monster rental house developers?

Do I agree low beach use density is beneficial to the environment as well as public health and safety? Seriously now. Where do trespassers actually pee and pooh when they want to day camp on a private beach property all day?

Aren't I here because of the relatively low density of our beaches compared to our neighboring counties? What's wrong with wanting to maintain that?

4. How do I recemmend we manage beach density without some form of exclusion? Are economic barriers of beach access ultimately any different than the physical barriers (locked gates) of say, Water Sound?

5. How do I suggest managing beach density without monetizing beach use? (eenie meenie miney mo?)

Everyone is in agreement that clean drinking water should be available for every human being, but do I get my water for free? or do I have to pay for it? Though water is unequivocally more essential than a convenient sunbathing spot, I still have to pay for water.

Do I really believe the public crowds are entitled to free real estate for sunbathing? Does Walton County owe anyone a cheap vacation? Has Walton County indicated any interest in restricting growth of short-term rentals, which ultimately drives out the full-time residents? (Side benefit- Lack of full-time residents opens the floodgates for corruption opportunities.)

6. How has Walton County indicated any plans in managing beach density? Do I really think just limiting parking is sufficient? How about Uber and the 86 passenger megaliner tour buses? Future shuttle bus plans? How many new rental homes were added just this year, flooding the market. How closely have they studied supply and demand and occupancy rates? Or they just plan to build the pooh out of this county, lining their own pockets while they can still lure investors in the hope of "customary use" while intentionally dragging out the assuredly eventually doomed lawsuits. With supposed ineptness?... How many 'failures to properly notice' do-overs is the county going to get? Pay attention, my friends.

How effective has Walton County ever been in regulating tourist conduct even on their county-owned public beach parks? Is it fair to confiscate private property just to make it a free-for-all "park"?

Why do I suppose coastal cities with large public beaches are hubs for human trafficking and porn production industry? (Come on now. Connect the dots. You're smart.)

How many personnel do I think would be truly required to adequately regulate the conduct of growing crowds along 26 miles of beaches? Who would pay for the high cost of adequately managing crowds on the beach? The beachgoers themselves? How so? If they are day-trippers?

7. When a homeowner wants to enjoy his private property with his family, why should he forfeit the right to insist an obnoxious, albeit legal, two-faced jerk leave? Wouldn't I demand my family be able to enjoy my own private property?

How many law enforcement officers do I think will be required to keep the public safe in today's increasingly violent culture, along 26 miles of open free-for-all beaches? (watch the news lately?)
How many lifeguard stands do we need per capita? How many water rescues and drownings did we have this year?

Can we continue to keep everybody safe on the beach without proper regulation, monitoring, or controls of ever-growing crowds coming and going?

8. Is restricting beach density inherently wrong?
Would veterans suffering from PTSD agree? Would mothers wanting to protect their young children from predatory pervs lurking in large crowds agree? Would shoreline migratory nesting foul and endangered sea turtles benefit? Would elderly couples wanting to walk hand in hand along an uncluttered shoreline agree? Would artists seeking inspiration from the natural environment agree? Would a soul searcher seeking a prayerful, meditative spot, gazing on the gulf horizon agree? Would a shoreline fisherman agree? Would a bride who wants to be assured her beach wedding location can be reserved well in advance agree? Would couples on a romantic getaway agree? Don't people who simply cannot be in a crowd, for one reason another, also have recreational beach rights, even when they're willing to pay for some privacy and solitude?
What about me? Have I ever enjoyed a vacation getaway on a private beach that exluded the public crowds?

9. Why should the rights of exclusion be transferred from the private property owners to the government, merely for greedy economic gain? With zero indication of any intention or cabability to properly manage beach use density and behavior?

10. Is exclusivity wrong? No. It's essential.
(The transfer of the rights of exclusion is really what this CU lawsuit is about, you know.)

Whether you agree or disagree, feel free to copy, paste, share and learn from some honest, thoughtful discussion and feedback among your friends and family. I do appreciate that you at least took the time to read this tl;dr post.
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

 

[mputnal]

Well, I see a new power broker just entered the room. Kind of makes sense doesn't it? What they lack in credibility they certainly make up in hired guns (their words not mine)!

Exclusion is what rich people want. They do not want to associate with the community much. They do not like people much (just read their words). Definitely are not able to attend a redneck fish fry or care much for our beach enjoyment or weather you have a happy anything! If they would just try to associate with us real working class people they might find us tolerable

Kathryn, I hear you but you are not using your real name right? I now support public recreational beach use and use my real name as well as Dave and a few others. You call people names like "surfer dude" etc. Does that make you feel good about something? Why would you support exclusive beach use by a few wealthy people who will squash you like a little ant if you stand in their way on any issue? They could give a rats aspirin bottle about mine and your rights. Makes no sense to me why you are giving them a mandate to believe in their superiority but I am sure you have a good reason!?! From my little ant life perspective I hope that real hard working people will never lose our voice...

 

[Dave Rauschkolb]

Well, I see a new power broker just entered the room. Kind of makes sense doesn't it? What they lack in credibility they certainly make up in hired guns (their words not mine)!

Exclusion is what rich people want. They do not want to associate with the community much. They do not like people much (just read their words). Definitely are not able to attend a redneck fish fry or care much for our beach enjoyment or weather you have a happy anything! If they would just try to associate with us real working class people they might find us tolerable

Kathryn, I hear you but you are not using your real name right? I now support public recreational beach use and use my real name as well as Dave and a few others. You call people names like "surfer dude" etc. Does that make you feel good about something? Why would you support exclusive beach use by a few wealthy people who will squash you like a little ant if you stand in their way on any issue? They could give a rats aspirin bottle about mine and your rights. Makes no sense to me why you are giving them a mandate to believe in their superiority but I am sure you have a good reason!?! From my little ant life perspective I hope that real hard working people will never lose our voice...

The latest ridiculous, juvenile moniker is that we are a bunch of "hooligans" Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[Alex Miles]

"EXCLUSIVITY"
(A thoughtful topic for the dinner table)

Before you get caught up adamantly defending the feel-good "customary use" campaign (innocent sounding label, right? Such a cute sticker they gave us at their affidavit blitz, right?), honestly ask yourself these 10 questions:

1. Do I agree beach density will eventually need to be managed so that the beach ambiance is not ruined for everybody?
2. Do I agree eventually there is some threshold?
3. Who gets to decide the threshold? Restauranteur empire-builders? Transient vacation rental investors? Bed tax collectors? Monster rental house developers?

Do I agree low beach use density is beneficial to the environment as well as public health and safety? Seriously now. Where do trespassers actually pee and pooh when they want to day camp on a private beach property all day?

Aren't I here because of the relatively low density of our beaches compared to our neighboring counties? What's wrong with wanting to maintain that?

4. How do I recemmend we manage beach density without some form of exclusion? Are economic barriers of beach access ultimately any different than the physical barriers (locked gates) of say, Water Sound?

5. How do I suggest managing beach density without monetizing beach use? (eenie meenie miney mo?)

Everyone is in agreement that clean drinking water should be available for every human being, but do I get my water for free? or do I have to pay for it? Though water is unequivocally more essential than a convenient sunbathing spot, I still have to pay for water.

Do I really believe the public crowds are entitled to free real estate for sunbathing? Does Walton County owe anyone a cheap vacation? Has Walton County indicated any interest in restricting growth of short-term rentals, which ultimately drives out the full-time residents? (Side benefit- Lack of full-time residents opens the floodgates for corruption opportunities.)

6. How has Walton County indicated any plans in managing beach density? Do I really think just limiting parking is sufficient? How about Uber and the 86 passenger megaliner tour buses? Future shuttle bus plans? How many new rental homes were added just this year, flooding the market. How closely have they studied supply and demand and occupancy rates? Or they just plan to build the pooh out of this county, lining their own pockets while they can still lure investors in the hope of "customary use" while intentionally dragging out the assuredly eventually doomed lawsuits. With supposed ineptness?... How many 'failures to properly notice' do-overs is the county going to get? Pay attention, my friends.

How effective has Walton County ever been in regulating tourist conduct even on their county-owned public beach parks? Is it fair to confiscate private property just to make it a free-for-all "park"?

Why do I suppose coastal cities with large public beaches are hubs for human trafficking and porn production industry? (Come on now. Connect the dots. You're smart.)

How many personnel do I think would be truly required to adequately regulate the conduct of growing crowds along 26 miles of beaches? Who would pay for the high cost of adequately managing crowds on the beach? The beachgoers themselves? How so? If they are day-trippers?

7. When a homeowner wants to enjoy his private property with his family, why should he forfeit the right to insist an obnoxious, albeit legal, two-faced jerk leave? Wouldn't I demand my family be able to enjoy my own private property?

How many law enforcement officers do I think will be required to keep the public safe in today's increasingly violent culture, along 26 miles of open free-for-all beaches? (watch the news lately?)
How many lifeguard stands do we need per capita? How many water rescues and drownings did we have this year?

Can we continue to keep everybody safe on the beach without proper regulation, monitoring, or controls of ever-growing crowds coming and going?

8. Is restricting beach density inherently wrong?
Would veterans suffering from PTSD agree? Would mothers wanting to protect their young children from predatory pervs lurking in large crowds agree? Would shoreline migratory nesting foul and endangered sea turtles benefit? Would elderly couples wanting to walk hand in hand along an uncluttered shoreline agree? Would artists seeking inspiration from the natural environment agree? Would a soul searcher seeking a prayerful, meditative spot, gazing on the gulf horizon agree? Would a shoreline fisherman agree? Would a bride who wants to be assured her beach wedding location can be reserved well in advance agree? Would couples on a romantic getaway agree? Don't people who simply cannot be in a crowd, for one reason another, also have recreational beach rights, even when they're willing to pay for some privacy and solitude?
What about me? Have I ever enjoyed a vacation getaway on a private beach that exluded the public crowds?

9. Why should the rights of exclusion be transferred from the private property owners to the government, merely for greedy economic gain? With zero indication of any intention or cabability to properly manage beach use density and behavior?

10. Is exclusivity wrong? No. It's essential.
(The transfer of the rights of exclusion is really what this CU lawsuit is about, you know.)

Whether you agree or disagree, feel free to copy, paste, share and learn from some honest, thoughtful discussion and feedback among your friends and family. I do appreciate that you at least took the time to read this tl;dr post.
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

Mputnal,
I'm by no means rich.
I would never look to "squash people like ants". (See, these attempted "word pictures" of yours don't work on people like me)
I'm definitely no power broker.
I was not paid or hired by anybody in this matter. Now, you on the other hand...
I'm very tolerant of all respectful persons.
I never insisted on credibility. Just offered food for thought. Somethin to chew on, around your own Thanksgiving table.
Originally, to be honest, I used say I was for "customary use". As I have watched this unfold over the last few years, I've quietly come to my own conclusions. Now I know what that "CU" term really means and its long-term ramifications. For all of us. Including you. So I decided to speak up. My voice is just as valid as yours. Tolerate me.
Alex

 

[mputnal]

Alex Miles, why are you painting the picture of public recreational use supporters as being on the lower levels of existence? You should go back and read your own words and the words of those that support exclusive private beach enjoyment like yourself. Your picture of the people and your superior beliefs and wants for exclusivity are right here for everyone to read forever! You can hide your name from the people but we know who you are because YOU are telling us who you are with your own words! I am amazed at how disconnected you are from the people. We grumbled about the large exclusive buildings blocking our views but we tolerated it. None of us ants are protesting your mansions. But now you want exclusive private enjoyment of the beaches. You are insatiable. It will never be enough for you to have exclusive buildings, exclusive views and exclusive rights. You want it all! I just don't understand how you have convinced yourself in a mandate for exclusivity.

 

[mputnal]

Alex Miles, why are you painting the picture of public recreational use supporters as being on the lower levels of existence? You should go back and read your own words and the words of those that support exclusive private beach enjoyment like yourself. Your picture of the people and your superior beliefs and wants for exclusivity are right here for everyone to read forever! You can hide your name from the people but we know who you are because YOU are telling us who you are with your own words! I am amazed at how disconnected you are from the people. We grumbled about the large exclusive buildings blocking our views but we tolerated it. None of us ants are protesting your mansions. But now you want exclusive private enjoyment of the beaches. You are insatiable. It will never be enough for you to have exclusive buildings, exclusive views and exclusive rights. You want it all! I just don't understand how you have convinced yourself in a mandate for exclusivity.

 

[Stone Cold J]

The latest ridiculous, juvenile moniker is that we are a bunch of "hooligans" Happy Thanksgiving!

Where in this post did Alex call you a hooligan?

Alex provided some great questions for serious discussion and your reply is that you are being called “hooligan”? Why should the decision criteria to determine who is allowed on private property be changed from the private property owners (who have made this decision from time immemorial) to the BCC (who tried to TAKE this right in 2016)?

BTW we are still waiting on your reply as the leader of FBFA (a plaintiff in the lawsuit against hundreds of property owners).

WHY it is reasonable to remove property rights from legally deeded private property owners which have NEVER challenged prior to 2016 by the BCC

WHO has shown going to every single parcel in the 26 mile beach from the mean high tide line to the dunes is without interruption (note: there are numerous cases which show this has been interrupted, such as decades old trespassing cases and the 2008 BCC Edgewater Court Order)

WHEN did this issue become WITHOUT DISPUTE as specified in the County Lawsuit?