Beach Vendor Meeting

The county would make money renting kiosks and selling licenses.

Agreed!!! And I am sure that type of arrangement is what Jdarg and I had in mind. Let the vendors bid for who is going to have the kiosks or divide them up proportionately. The fee for establishing and maintaining the kiosks could go to the TDC to further other tourist interests.

How can someone participate in the debate/discussion of an issue and then not vote due to a conflict of interest? In the past a commissioner with a conflict left the room when the topic was brought to the floor.

Well I understand a complaint will be filed to determine that.

Maybe 80-90% of people who come talk to you about buying golf carts use beach chair rental services- which would make the very first part of your statement true. But let's make sure we do not in any way confuse your cited numbers as a representative sampling of actual demand or usage of rental chairs on our public beaches.

The data point that 80-90% of users of our public beaches rent beach chairs is simply NOT a true statement. Not even close.

There isn't enough sand to make those numbers plausible even if you are using 150% of the beach at the waters edge. Each beach setup accommodates only 2 people and takes up - what- maybe 6-8 linear feet of sand?

IMHO vendors are lucky to be given half of our public beaches.

The numbers i quoted are just an educated guess from my dealings with vacationers on a daily basis, but maybe a study should be done to properly assess the demand before passing ordinances that will limit their availability to the tourists.

The Beach Chairs are a luxury which people on vacation expect, take that away and you risk them going somewhere else. A day on the beach can be a lot of work, the beach chair guys make it easy. i agree with the problem of the ghost sets, this problem should be addressed specifically not pass ordinances that could potentially put numerous small businesses out of business. Tourism drives this county, give the tourists what they want.

How can someone participate in the debate/discussion of an issue and then not vote due to a conflict of interest? In the past a commissioner with a conflict left the room when the topic was brought to the floor.

I was present at the meeting, the commissioner was elected to represent the people in her district as best she can. She is a part of the community and having first hand knowledge of the situation and what effects it will have on local businesses made her voice a valuable one. The conflict of interest was only if she voted, the county attorney verified she had every right to be involved in the discussion.

The numbers i quoted are just an educated guess from my dealings with vacationers on a daily basis, but maybe a study should be done to properly assess the demand before passing ordinances that will limit their availability to the tourists. The Beach Chairs are a luxury which people on vacation expect, take that away and you risk them going somewhere else. A day on the beach can be a lot of work, the beach chair guys make it easy. i agree with the problem of the ghost sets, this problem should be addressed specifically not pass ordinances that could potentially put numerous small businesses out of business. Tourism drives this county, give the tourists what they want.

Problem is enforcement(tuff enforcement) once passed it must be enforced. Last summer one beach enforcement officer told me it was a waste of time to issue citations. Mainly,( get this) because HE would have to spend a day on court if the vendor fought the citation...

Problem is enforcement(tuff enforcement) once passed it must be enforced. Last summer one beach enforcement officer told me it was a waste of time to issue citations. Mainly,( get this) because HE would have to spend a day on court if the vendor fought the citation...

Enforcing rules and ordinances is an ongoing problem. If you cannot/will not enforce an ordinance or rule, then why bother with it?

Here is my inquiry to the County Administrator and County Attorney on January 14th.

Her son is a permitted Beach vendor. That's the conflict and the one the Ethics Commission will consider.

[TABLE="class: ajC"]
[TR="class: UszGxc ajv"]
[TD="class: gL, colspan: 2"]Robert Hudson <xxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: ajv"]
[TD="class: gG, colspan: 2"]to: Davis Mark <mdd@co.walton.fl.us>[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: ajv"]
[TD="class: gG, colspan: 2"]cc: Jones Larry <jonlarry@co.walton.fl.us>[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Mark

As a follow up to our discussion last night I reviewed my notes and provide the following.

The statute seems pretty clear to me.

I request that you either advise me where there is an exemption or seek a ruling prior to her further participation in the "Beach Vendors" ordinance issue.

Clearly Bill Imfeld has realized the impact of his association with Sandestin and has not participated in votes or discussions revolving around Driftwood Estates.

Mrs Jones should act in a like manner.

My concern is based on the following. I have marked that section which I believe applies.

I would appreciate your thoughts on this issue.


Bob


Florida Statutes 112.3143. A state public officer may not vote on any matter that the officer knows would inure to his or her special private gain or loss. Any state public officer who abstains from voting in an official capacity upon any measure that the officer knows would inure to the officer’s special private gain or loss, or who votes in an official capacity on a measure that he or she knows would inure to the special private gain or loss of any principal by whom the officer is retained or to the parent organization or subsidiary of a corporate principal by which the officer is retained other than an agency as defined in s. 112.312(2); or which the officer knows would inure to the special private gain or loss of a relative or business associate of the public officer, shall make every reasonable effort to disclose the nature of his or her interest as a public record in a memorandum filed with the person responsible for recording the minutes of the meeting, who shall incorporate the memorandum in the minutes. If it is not possible for the state public officer to file a memorandum before the vote, the memorandum must be filed with the person responsible for recording the minutes of the meeting no later than 15 days after the vote.
A member of the Legislature may satisfy the disclosure requirements of this section by filing a disclosure form created pursuant to the rules of the member’s respective house if the member discloses the information required by this subsection….If disclosure of specific information would violate confidentiality or privilege pursuant to law or rules governing attorneys, a public officer, who is also an attorney, may comply with the disclosure requirements of this section by disclosing the nature of the interest in such a way as to provide the public with notice of the conflict.

Someone does not need to cast a vote in order to influence the outcome of an issue. Guiding the debate to a desired outcome is very much a possibility. The only way to avoid any hint of impropriety would be to excuse yourself when the topic is introduced.

The statute seems pretty clear to me. [/FONT]

I request that you either advise me where there is an exemption or seek a ruling prior to her further participation in the "Beach Vendors" ordinance issue.

112.312(2); or which the officer knows would inure to the special private gain or loss of a relative or business associate of the public officer,

It does not seem clear to me. I do not feel like this constitutes the private gain or loss of an individual , it effects an entire industry and the entire community. Many Many people will be equally effected by this. In my opinion Mrs Jones had every right to be a part of the conversation, she was elected to do so. I feel like she was representing the community to the best of her ability. I've only met Mrs Jones one time, briefly, at the courthouse annex earlier this year and I was very impressed that she took the time to ask me my opinion on a few issues, this being one of them.

Beach Buggys:

It is obvious you support C. Jones, even though it is even more obvious that she violated policy in the most recent meeting. I am sure it was just an oversight and the fact that her son is a vendor will not have anything to do with the outcome of any of this debate...

You stated that people "expect" beach chairs which are a "luxury". I have to disagree. I find that most people don't want to spend the high dollar amount for uncomfortable wooden chairs and an umbrella. Now maybe at a higher end resort (Ally's Beach, Watercolor, etc.) but those are all PRIVATE facilities. We are talking about a PUBLIC beach. There's a big difference.

Additionally, your suggestion of a "study" is interesting. Who is going to pay for the "study" and what is the quantifiable question that will be answered by such an undertaking? If the beach vendors want to contract with someone to do a study ($$$), that would be great. Just look at how successful the County's "Traffic Study" has been...

Where I think you have a good point is that of the Ghost Chairs. Isn't this an issue that the vendors can all solve themselves? Yes it is and they have been given a chance to do this, yet they have not been able to solve the problem and it has escalated to the County (damn Socialists...) getting involved.

Let us all not forget what happened to the golf cart / LSV industry last year or the year before...

A few bad apples ruined the business for all. Some of the rental companies didn't play by the rules and had the same arrogant attitude that has befallen the beach vendors. The result was communities banning golf carts all together with some then contracting with the most professional vendor exclusively, pushing out more of the smaller companies.

I'd suggest beach chair vendors start to change their attitudes and come up with proactive ways to preserve their business before it goes the way of the golf carts...

NOTICE of PUBLIC HEARING

You are hereby notified of a Public Hearing to be held April 14, 2015 at 4:00 PM, or soon thereafter, to consider:

AN ORDINANCE AMENDING WALTON CODE OF ORDINANCES SECTION 22-60; FINDING THAT THE COUNTY HAS THE POWER TO REGULATE THE PROVISION OF GOODS AND SERVICES BY PRIVATE VENDORS MAKING USE OF THE PUBLIC INTEREST ON THE BEACH; AMENDING THE RULES AND REGULATIONS RELATING TO PRIVATE VENDORS ON THE BEACH

The Meeting will be held at the Walton County Courthouse Annex located at 31 Coastal Centre Blvd., Santa Rosa Beach, FL.

If anyone decides to appeal a decision of the Board with respect to this meeting that person must ensure that a verbatim record of the meeting is made.

In accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act, persons needing a special accommodation to participate in this proceeding should contact the Board of County Commissioners of Walton County no later than seven days prior to the proceeding at the address given in this notice or phone (850) 892-8155.

In the infamous words of the Zac Brown band this is what I expect when I go to a PUBLIC BEACH..

In the infamous words of the Zac Brown band this is what I expect when I go to a PUBLIC BEACH.. I got my toes in the water, a$$ in the sand Not a worry in the world, a cold beer in my hand Life is good today. Life is good today.

my only problem is " the sky is to blue and the beer is to cold ", & the darn
Beach vendors

This is from the "draft minutes" of the March 10th Special Meeting.

Commissioner Jones stated that she would recuse herself from voting due to her being related to a vendor on private beaches. (Form 8B)

Attorney Davis stated that he had advised Commissioner Jones regarding her conflict of interest and what she could and could not do. He said that the issue was researched and that it appears participating, with certain limitations, is the choice of the official. Recusal must be made prior to the vote.


Attached is her form 8B where she legally attests to her reason for recusal and the list of all permitted vendors for 2014.

Seems the issue is not cut & dried and further research is required.

View attachment 20130310 SPECIAL MEETING.pdf

View attachment 2014 Beach Vendor Permit List.pdf

"Commissioner Cecilia Jones said her opinion is that if it is working and not broken, then don’t mess with it. This was met with a round of applause by many in the audience. Commissioner Bill Imfeld said he has concerns the county is going too fast on any changes."

Beach buggys:

I think that it would be a waste of time and money to conduct a study to determine what percentage of users of public beaches rents chairs. Decisions being made right now have nothing to do with how many people use them vs not. It has to do with the wall of commercial chairs (often empty one) mucking up the view from the wee early morning hours.

Are u being serious when u say that people who come here would stop coming because changes would be made with respect to beach chair rentals on public beaches? Do u really believe that? Just a reminder- anyone who feels that strongly about beach chairs has no shortage of places to rent with private beaches that offer beach setups.


No one wants to hurt small business owners. But look- it seems changes are likely to be made. And the perception shared by many is that the changes are coming because beach vendors didn't seem willing to address the issues voluntarily. I wish beach chair vendors would jump in and say otherwise if such is the case.

Geo, I can just hear it now.

"I've been coming to 30A for years, but I heard this year it may be harder to get a rental chair. So, I've decided to go to Panama City Beach instead."

Best fiction you'll read today.

Geo, I can just hear it now.

"I've been coming to 30A for years, but I heard this year it may be harder to get a rental chair. So, I've decided to go to Panama City Beach instead."

Best fiction you'll read today.

It will be more like this;

"We've been coming here for years and years, but the beach chair vendors have become rude, pushy and make us feel like we have to rent their chairs to enjoy the beach." "We have simply decided to vacation elsewhere next time, it was nice, but time to say goodbye to 30A."

This is from the "draft minutes" of the March 10th Special Meeting.

Commissioner Jones stated that she would recuse herself from voting due to her being related to a vendor on private beaches. (Form 8B)

Attorney Davis stated that he had advised Commissioner Jones regarding her conflict of interest and what she could and could not do. He said that the issue was researched and that it appears participating, with certain limitations, is the choice of the official. Recusal must be made prior to the vote.

1. Notice the word "appears" and the "within certain limits" statement.
​

Question: What are those limitations? Did she exceed them ?

​

2. Her statement was that her recusal was based on her being related to a vendor on "private beaches".

​

Her son holds a permit for vending on three (3) locations, plus a delivery permit which allows delivery to all "public Beach Accesses".​

Question: Does her son deliver to "public beach accesses"​

Attached is her form 8B where she legally attests to her reason for recusal and the list of all permitted vendors for 2014.

Seems the issue is not cut & dried and further research is required.

View attachment 40162

View attachment 40163

Obvious issue.

State will have a lot to explain and will set massive precedent if they excuse this.

It will allow many relatives to walk through an open door.

Sounds trivial on surface but its not.

Beach Buggys:

It is obvious you support C. Jones, even though it is even more obvious that she violated policy in the most recent meeting. I am sure it was just an oversight and the fact that her son is a vendor will not have anything to do with the outcome of any of this debate...

You stated that people "expect" beach chairs which are a "luxury". I have to disagree. I find that most people don't want to spend the high dollar amount for uncomfortable wooden chairs and an umbrella. Now maybe at a higher end resort (Ally's Beach, Watercolor, etc.) but those are all PRIVATE facilities. We are talking about a PUBLIC beach. There's a big difference.

Additionally, your suggestion of a "study" is interesting. Who is going to pay for the "study" and what is the quantifiable question that will be answered by such an undertaking? If the beach vendors want to contract with someone to do a study ($$$), that would be great. Just look at how successful the County's "Traffic Study" has been...

Where I think you have a good point is that of the Ghost Chairs. Isn't this an issue that the vendors can all solve themselves? Yes it is and they have been given a chance to do this, yet they have not been able to solve the problem and it has escalated to the County (damn Socialists...) getting involved.

Let us all not forget what happened to the golf cart / LSV industry last year or the year before...

A few bad apples ruined the business for all. Some of the rental companies didn't play by the rules and had the same arrogant attitude that has befallen the beach vendors. The result was communities banning golf carts all together with some then contracting with the most professional vendor exclusively, pushing out more of the smaller companies.

I'd suggest beach chair vendors start to change their attitudes and come up with proactive ways to preserve their business before it goes the way of the golf carts...

Well said, very valid points. I do agree the beach vendors should take a pro active in solving this problem. Its no secret that many on here strongly oppose the street legal golf cart/LSV business as well, and you are correct, there were/are companies renting substandard vehicles and breaking community rules which has lead to a negative outlook on the business. I have always taken a proactive stance in making sure our business is a part of the solution and not the problem. I like to think our outlook has helped us to weather the storm and continue to run a good business. Looking at this Beach Vendor situation, I guess the companies more willing to be a part of the solution will weather the storm as well.

But similar to the golf cart issue, i have many, many repeat customers that have always stayed in communities like watercolor or rosemary beach that banned or restricted LSV's. These customers have decided to rent elsewhere, so they could still have the luxury of a golf cart. I do believe the same will apply to beach chairs, if you make the luxuries inaccessible, there will definitely be people who decide to go where they can be catered too. My stance on the issue is lets not make vacationing in South Walton more trouble than its worth to our guests. Keep the luxuries readily available.

When staying in a resort the guest is provided every luxury they desire including Beach set up. Those resort towns regulate the set ups so that their beaches remain beautiful and accessible to guests. The same needs to happen on every Beach.

Grayton Beach has always had a chair vendor. In years past, that vendor was respectful of beachgoers and only provided what was needed or wanted without taking over the beautiful beach, and without an obvious presence. Was never a problem. Not sure what happened. Beach vendors started coming out of the woodwork. Last year so many locals and visitors were complaining about chair set ups everywhere. The set ups ruin the beauty of a public beach that was once open and natural, they take over our public space on the beach, and they are now out of control.

Other Florida beaches control and regulate beach vendors out of necessity. It's our responsibility to do the same to protect our beaches and keep them beautiful and accessible. Most of us bring our own chairs and umbrellas. If you want to rent a set up, then rent in a resort or call a vendor ahead of time.

It's no secret that I don't like C Jones or her overbearing, mouthy spouse but....IMO I think this ones a stretch Mr. Hudson.

If it turns out you're correct...KUDOS on you.

Saturday 3/14/15. Reserved Wed-Fri. Which Wed.? Blue Mt.