Construction Costs on 30a

[SHELLY]

I for one am glad to have the "third world" workers doing some of our company's jobs. They seem to appreciate the opportunity and their productivity in many cases exceeds that of what we were accustomed to.

I agree...nothing's better than a good "bottom line." :clap_1:

 

[beachmouse]

Summer unemployment here is currently running something like 2-3%, which is generally considered to be full enployment by any economic measure I've ever seen. And there are far more summer service jobs these days that locals to work them. The KenTacoHut over by Silver Sands was advertising $10/hour for fast food jobs last summer, which isn't bad for asking "Do you want Nachos Bell Grande with that?" and still didn't seem to have many takers because the presentable, somewhat sober local high school and college age workers can do better than that.

 

[SHELLY]

The KenTacoHut over by Silver Sands was advertising $10/hour for fast food jobs last summer, which isn't bad for asking "Do you want Nachos Bell Grande with that?" and still didn't seem to have many takers because the presentable, somewhat sober local high school and college age workers can do better than that.

You're absolutely right!...kids that live around here don't need to work--their parents provide for their every want (buy their cars, pay their cell phone bills and give them credit cards).

The folks who used to take these types of jobs can't afford a $300,000 condo in the Silver Sands area or the $2.40 gal gas and 1+ hour drive each way to work. Luckily, there are more than enough McJobs in every nook- and-cranny of the panhandle so they don't have to travel to Destin/SoWal (albeit they can't make enough to support a decent lifestyle).

Economically speaking, this area of the panhandle is a train wreck waiting to happen--but it makes for an incredibly fascinating study. I suspect that as this real estate boom continues to subside, it will free up more and more folks who are working in that sector to take on these $10 p/h jobs (providing they stashed away enough cash during the boom years to pay for healthcare, taxes and insurance and haven't used I/O or Option ARMs to purchase their homes).

 

[Paula]

Keep in mind that not all wealthy parents pay for all their kids' needs. Wise ones require their kids to work, learn how to earn/save/invest money, give back to the community, etc. Spoiled kids, good and bad kids, come from all economic levels -- Just like adults. There are givers and takers, those who make the world a better place or a worse place, at every income level.

There's a book called "Talented Teenagers: The Roots of Success and Failure (Cambridge Studies in Social & Emotional Development)" that would probably confirm or disconfirm the view that all wealthy parents spoil their kids. I have the book though I haven't read it yet. Will let you know what I learn when I do.

 

[TooFarTampa]

You're absolutely right!...kids that live around here don't need to work--their parents provide for their every want (buy their cars, pay their cell phone bills and give them credit cards).

Paula's right, SHELLY -- and she should know, as a university professor she observes and interacts with all kinds of kids. Once again you are painting with an unfairly broad brush. You seem to do that a lot, which is why so many of the fair-minded people here end up disagreeing with you.

 

[Paula]

Yup, I study "what predicts success" (not only defined by salary and promotions but by adding value at work, happiness, well-being, and contribution to community/family as well). I certainly don't know everything about it (by far), but I do try to stay on top of the research and stay away from sweeping statements unless they're supported by research (or unless I'm stating my personal opinion at sunset on the beach with a margarita). Without research, such statements become stereotypes and stereotypes usually don't add much value and can be divisive.

Personally, from the classes I teach at the Business School (it's a state, not private, business school), I haven't noticed any difference in student achievement or goodwill based on class, wealth, etc.

Kurt's going to tell us to take this to another thread soon...

 

[Uncle Timmy]

You mean, people talk about SHELLY in real life? And how do you pronounce it if it's all in caps? Do you shout it?

Not picking on you (too much), SHELLY ... just wondering, how many locals lurk here without posting? Must be a lot.

P.S. regarding construction costs: Are they really that low on average? I thought if we were going to have to build a custom home on our Seagrove lot, which we won't be doing anytime soon, we could figure $200-225 a square foot with the current market. I also thought Watercolor, Rosemary, etc, were closer to $250 and up. As always it varies with builder, architect, and how much high end stuff you want in the house.

Too Far, I think that your numbers are close to the actual building cost at this time. I am involved in local residential housing and keep a close eye on the numbers.

Along 30-A expect about $200-225/sf. The cost to build in Watercolor, is about $250/sf for the raw builder's costs -not including the builder's fee. (Closer to $300/sf when this is included).

Keep in mind that there are a few factors pushing costs up right now. Some of them are nationwide factors such as material costs (China is sucking up a lot of the world's steel and concrete, pushing prices up), others are local.

Local Issues:

Local Subcontractors are driving up the costs substantially. They have a captive market in the planned communities such as Watercolor, that have build-out clauses. They know that those home owners have a limited time to get their homes built and are not in a position to argue over pricing. And, because they have their hands full doing these homes it's a simple matter of supply and demand pushing up prices even for those outside of these communities.

Location -I'm afraid that just being in south Walton as opposed to north Walton will result in higher prices. Some of this can be attributed to tighter building codes here, we are required to meet a higher wind load etc. As a specific example, framing costs are about 3 times as high in south Walton as opposed to Freeport.

Affordable Housing - Our building costs are 2.5 times higher than for areas only a few hours away. In a 'normal' scenario, we would be drawing in contractors from these surrounding areas attracted by the higher profit margins, but as we have no affordable housing in the area, this isn't happening. Hence, no price competition.

Although it would be difficult to pin an actual percentage of construction cost value on it, another important factor is the higher level of detailing, appliances, etc. which have now become standard in south Walton homes. A few years ago, no one considered granite countertops and high end stainless steel appliances as the 'norm' for housing construction. If you could settle for laminate countertops and GE appliances etc. you can significantly reduce the overall building cost.

I recently reviewed a bid for a concrete block house in Seagrove Beach that came in at around $275/sf. The house next door, also concrete block built 5 years ago cost $106/sf.

If construction in Watercolor, and other communities like it, slows down it could help moderate prices.

If we could address the affordable housing issue and attract more labor to the area, this will moderate prices.

 

[SHELLY]

Yup, I study "what predicts success" (not only defined by salary and promotions but by adding value at work, happiness, well-being, and contribution to community/family as well). I certainly don't know everything about it (by far), but I do try to stay on top of the research and stay away from sweeping statements unless they're supported by research (or unless I'm stating my personal opinion at sunset on the beach with a margarita).

Paula, I agree that all wealthy families don't spoil their children, but they are less likely to encourage their children (spoiled or not) to go out and work in food service or retail (which are the overwhelming majority of jobs available in the Destin/SoWal area).

I'm really interested to hear your personal opinion of the future of the Destin and South Walton economic/employment situation and your view of the area's increasing reliance on the use of inexpensive temporary migrant labor for its workforce.

In my opinion and observation, the rush to profit in real estate has upset the healthy economic balance of the Florida panhandle.

 

[Paula]

I really don't know what kind of jobs the wealthy want for their kids to start out with. I'm sure some sociologist(s) has done some research on that. It probably depends on what level of wealthy we're talking about. If it's the wealthy who can afford a nice house, even beach front, on 30A, I think it could go either way. The upper middle class/middle class could certainly want their children to start off waitering or waitressing, clerking, construction, office work, working for mom or dad or aunt or uncle, etc. Now there's Paris Hilton wealthy and that may be different. I just don't know (we'd have to ask some sociologist and maybe you or I will get around to it). In our neighborhood and school and day care we have many different income levels. Frankly, I see all of these kids waitressing/waitering/etc. together at some point -- maybe even SoWal and they'd be great. If anything, maybe SoWal will be a place for rich people to give their kids experience working summers.

As for the market, I'm in it for the long-term and I believe it will be very good for the middle-term and long-term. I compare it to a place like Waikiki that was took a hit about 8 years ago (I have a friend who bought a condo there a while ago) and is very expensive now. I think some people will lose money if they need to move their properties quickly, others will break even, and others will make some money (but not as much as they could have made a few years ago if they want to flip quickly). I think there was some irrational exuberance for a while. Personally, we bought our cottages to enjoy them and make memories and ideally pass them on to the kids, so I don't worry about the market. We have not been disappointed and, in fact, they've brought us more joy than we could have imagined. And I think there are still many people who want to buy property along the coast for those reasons so I'm not afraid of the market in SoWal crashing.

Would I buy right now? If I had the money and could hold onto the property for a while and if I didn't have to stretch too much to buy (and I wasn't betting my retirement income on it) -- absolutely. Are there other beautiful places to buy property? I'm sure there are. But we stopped looking once we found SoWal. Will the area change a lot? I'm sure. But I think it will be nicer than Waikiki and Siesta Key and a lot of other places that grew so fast and didn't have 40% of the area reserved for the natural environment.

 

[DBOldford]

Just when you think the day is darkest, a break in the clouds. Recent sale in Grayton Beach of a house listed for $2.2M and sold for list price. Less the estimated land basis of some $1.5M, this translates into a sq. ft. enclosed building price of just under $200 per sq. ft. I also understand from two local realtors that sales activity has picked up over the past several weeks. :clap_1: