County removing articles from beach?

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Bluznbeach, May 25, 2009.

  1. tsutcli

    tsutcli Beach Fanatic

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    There will be yet another county meeting Friday about beach clean-up. They hope to have those legal issues satisfied and it is my understanding the beach will be cleaned up but they are going to discuss strategy. Consistency will also be an issue.
     
  2. wrobert

    wrobert Beach Fanatic

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    And you believe you have no 'personal responsibility' for stumbling around in the dark on a sandy beach?
     
  3. wrobert

    wrobert Beach Fanatic

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    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated....


    ...nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.



    Them silly amendments keep getting in the way of emotional rule. Darn it all.
     
  4. scooterbug44

    scooterbug44 SoWal Expert

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    I've got your consistency right here:

    Items left on the beach overnight will be discarded.

    No exceptions, no tags, no warnings, no whining.

    Any "private" landowner who does not comply is in violation of the Federal Endangered Species Act of 1973 and the Chapter 370.12 Florida Statutes "Marine Turtle Protection Act" and may be subject to prosecution and fines by both the Florida Department of Environmental Protection and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services with fines up to $10,000.

    The signs are already up, the statutes/fines are already there, the jurisdictions and review process for any permanent structures in that zone already exist, and common sense in on our side.

    All Walton County has to do is put on their big girl panties and enforce it.
     
  5. wrobert

    wrobert Beach Fanatic

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    So glad that those guys that went to school for years and years and have actually studied law are advising the county on this one.
     
  6. NotDeadYet

    NotDeadYet Beach Fanatic

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    Scoot, I think you are having trouble understanding this because you do in fact use a public access, albeit a relatively hidden one. The public access I use is also relatively hidden, but it is used mostly by locals. Right next to it, on both the east and west, are private walkovers built by the adjoining condo complexes. The majority of people on "my" beach (no, not claiming ownership, a figure of speech only!) are short term renters from the condos. They don't use the public walkover, they use the condo walkovers, and there are no signs of any kind on those walkovers. Nada, zilch. Nothing about the flags, nothing about rules, turtles, or anything else. If you wander the beach you will realize that the private walkovers, whether for single family or multi family properties, vastly outnumber the public walkovers, and most of them have no signs.
    The vacation rental market is going to have to step up and educate their guests, and that ain't happening.
     
  7. wrobert

    wrobert Beach Fanatic

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    I am unable to locate this Statute through the Online Sunshine web page. Probably repealed or not signed due to its lack of constitutionality on its face.


    I did find this:

    FS 379.2431

    [SIZE=-1](c) As used in this subsection, the following phrases have the following meanings: [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]1. A "properly accredited person" is: [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]a. Students of colleges or universities whose studies with saltwater animals are under the direction of their teacher or professor; or [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]b. Scientific or technical faculty of public or private colleges or universities; or [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]c. Scientific or technical employees of private research institutions and consulting firms; or [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]d. Scientific or technical employees of city, county, state, or federal research or regulatory agencies; or [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]e. Members in good standing or recognized and properly chartered conservation organizations, the Audubon Society, or the Sierra Club; or [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]f. Persons affiliated with aquarium facilities or museums, or contracted as an agent therefor, which are open to the public with or without an admission fee; or [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]g. Persons without specific affiliations listed above, but who are recognized by the commission for their contributions to marine conservation such as scientific or technical publications, or through a history of cooperation with the commission in conservation programs such as turtle nesting surveys, or through advanced educational programs such as high school marine science centers.
    [/SIZE]



    [SIZE=-1]Which seems to say that the Sea Turtle people do not have to be anything special other than have a High School Marine Science class to move turtle nests. Sort of defeats the sole source provision of the $80K contract we are paying to the Turtle Watch volunteers. Now to get that contract from the TDC. Thanks.[/SIZE]


    [SIZE=-1]And unless the Fed can show that leaving stuff on my property is going to have an adverse affect on interstate commerce, they have no Constitutional power to impose any regulations.
    [/SIZE]
     
  8. wrobert

    wrobert Beach Fanatic

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    Now that is a great idea. Yirtle the Turtle can not find a place to put her eggs because of the stuff on the beach. Maybe 30A Television can do some spots and we can start putting them up on various community web sites.
     
  9. scooterbug44

    scooterbug44 SoWal Expert

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    I understand that there may not be signage at every private access (which is dumb if they rent it out IMO), but they are still given that information in pamphlets, the free newspaper, in displays in local businesses, in TV ads..........

    Frankly, I don't understand why we have to bend over backwards to inform people of something they should have learned in kindegarten - pick up after yourself!

    WR - dunno why you can't find it, I was sent information repeatedly referencing that statute by the FDEP within the last couple of months. :dunno:
     
  10. BeachSiO2

    BeachSiO2 Beach Fanatic

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    If you were to get approved by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission (FWC) and the US Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) to be a marine turtle permit holder FOR WALTON COUNTY; be willing to check all 20 miles of beaches every morning come rain, sun, sleet, hail by 9am from May 1 through October 31st (on foot vehicles are not used); move nests at all hours of the night; be responsible for having someone on site during turtle hatching periods, strandings and necropsies; serve on the TDC's Beach Management Committee and attend their meetings; perform beach clearing at all TDC beach access construction sites when neccesary; submit all state and federal documentation; and do everything else that the FWC and USFWS requires them to do for less than $80,000, then the TDC would sure like to hear about it.

    As I told you in a PM, per USFWS and FWC there is currently only one turtle permit holder for Walton County but feel free to get yours and come in lower than $80k.
     
  11. Interested Girl

    Interested Girl Beach Fanatic

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    I believe in personsl responsibility and have sufficient liability insurance. I also believe that in the scenario you describe I would prevail in court. I am now held liable for injuries sustained on my property if found negligent.

    Believe what you want, but I have no intention of ever saying I should not be held liable for negligence because you were on public land. Your feet better be wet or you are on private property without consent.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  12. Everytime

    Everytime Beach Fanatic

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    wrobert & Interested Girl:

    Here's another liability scenario:

    I own a beach house next door to your beach house. You leave your belongings set up on the beach pretty much as long as you wish, 24/7, whatever. One day, my family and I are playing out on the beach; it's cloudy, but not raining, and a storm appears to be brewing offshore to the southwest. Unexpectedly, strong winds come across the beach and lift up your unattended beach gear, including tents, umbrellas, etc. and hit some of my family members, injuring them. Who is liable in this situation? Wouldn't it have turned out much better if you hadn't left your belongings on the beach unattended?
     
  13. northender

    northender Beach Comber

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    I want the beach clean as much as the next guy, but can you provide information on one case in the past where someone was injured in flying beach items.
     
  14. Everytime

    Everytime Beach Fanatic

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    No, I guess you got me. But I've chased down a few unattended umbrellas and seen other people on the beach dodge dodging tumbleweed beach gear. Should we just let it stay out there 24/7 until someone gets hurt, and then maybe consider liability after the fact?
     
  15. Jdarg

    Jdarg SoWal Expert

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    So maybe people getting injured by flying beach items is a rare happening, but it is OK for beach junk to fly into the water, or be blown around, becoming litter?

    Maybe everyone can just throw garbage out the window from their car- same thing as leaving stuff on the beach. I see this here more than any place I have ever lived- food trash, cigarettes, beer cans. It is unbelievable. Why keep the beach clean when clearly many people around here don't care enough to stop throwing trash out their car windows?
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2009
  16. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    Who said anything about stumbling around. One should expect a beach free of beach chairs, tents, guidelines, metal stakes, volleyball nets, etc.
     
  17. SHELLY

    SHELLY SoWal Insider

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  18. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    If you set up tents and lawn chairs at the County Court House in Defuniak, how long do you think it would be before the County officers removed the tents and chairs? Do you think they would allow you to keep them set up overnight, with lots of other stuff, over night? Do you think they should allow them to remain set up indefinitely?
     
  19. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    So your deed doesn't go to the Mean High Water Mark? It goes right up to the water? If you think you will win, then I guess you are taking your chances. I've heard too many cases where a trespasser won, even when the property was fenced off.
     
  20. Interested Girl

    Interested Girl Beach Fanatic

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    Do you leave lawnchairs in your backyard at night? Actually I have two things that I leave in my backyard (you call it The Beach) at night - adirondak chairs thatt are so heavy that rest well at night knowing they are not going to fly around my neighborhood.

    At 78 I no longer play volleyball nor do I throw trash down in my backyard, but those who daily cross my property regulary discard their refuse on my property. What do you expect mw to do - welcome them with open arms and offer them a drink. All of your ordinances and code enforcement officers will do nothing to stop the activity that many believe to be some constitutional right that says "Whats mine is mine and what is yours is mine as well".
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2009

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