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Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. Kurt Lischka

    Kurt Lischka Admin Staff Member

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    Someone's feeling are hurt so It was removed for copyright concerns following a claim of authorship and libel allegation. Everyone is welcome to post on our free and open forum as long as simple rules are followed.

    Dave or anyone else is welcome to start another thread about the issue without posting the blog screenshot in question without the author's approval.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  2. Bob Wells

    Bob Wells Beach Fanatic

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    You all must be as busy as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest!
     
  3. FactorFiction

    FactorFiction Beach Fanatic

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    1) Huckabee's house is not built on public beach. Blue Mountain Beach "beach" was owned by the developer who specifically outlined in writing (recorded in the Walton County records) that the beach was to be transferred to the beachfront owners.
    2) Seriously, "people have been parking their lawn chairs and fishing poles since time immemorial"? This is bogus on its face. Lawn chairs have been around since time immemorial? Fishing is a way better argument.
    3) He does not chase people off the beach.
    4) He does not have security to chase people off the beach.
    5) While renourishment of the beaches was done on the west end of Walton County (west of Topsail State Preserve), it was NOT done on the remaining Walton County beaches, so taxpayer dollars have not been used to renourish most of the WC beaches.
    6) Quiet title is to clarify ownership of property based on facts and evidence, not on the payment of some amount of money and someone can just "buy" property because they want it.
    7) Tona Rama was certainly a case, but it was a specific case on a specific property related to a tower in Daytona Beach. Someone better versed in the law might like to explain it, but suffice it to say that Tona Rama isn't the end all on CU that it's made out to be.

    Articles like this are inflammatory. They do nothing to solve the problem and only create conflict among our residents and tourists. The state of our beaches and this conflict have been exaggerated in social media to the point that some of the very people who rely most on tourism are leaders in potentially damaging our tourism industry. I'm told that the tourism numbers do not reflect damage to tourism at this point. We'll see.

    There are players with bad behavior on both sides of this issue, but most of us can get along if we quit spewing beliefs and opinions and just recognize the basic facts: Walton County allowed private beaches to developers and has done so even in recent history. The beachfront owners want to protect their rights, but most of them are not kicking respectful people off their beach. There's a lot of beach out there. We can avoid the places that we aren't wanted and enjoy the places that actually like those of us who are respectful.

    Think about this: If I own a restaurant, I actually cater to the public; however, if someone is disruptive to my guests, I have the right to ask them to leave. If they don't leave, I have the right to assistance from security or law enforcement. If all my guests are respectful to each other, my staff, and to me, then everybody enjoys my restaurant peacefully. Is it really so hard to look at the beaches in a similar way?
     
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  4. miznotebook

    miznotebook Beach Fanatic

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    Do we have sea level rise here? I know we have beach erosion....
     
  5. Reggie Gaskins

    Reggie Gaskins Beach Lover

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    Memorial Day is here, and so are our guests. Put yourself in their shoes. Do you want to save all year and have your family vacation ruined because a few fame hungry social media keyboard warriors have the public all riled up about some imaginary historical English Colonial Law fantasy? Do you want their stickers, cameras, or noise in your face? Or would you rather find a nice quiet, beautiful white sugar sand beach on the 13 miles of available public beach, or even on someone's private beach that isn't being attacked by these activists yet?
    You see, once the loud fame hungry activists publicly attack another neighbor on social media, more signs go up. IMO The do nothing county, and these #occupythebeach bullies are entirely to blame for our current troubles. The signs weren't here before two things happened.
    1) Deliberate protesters travelled up and down 30A to create staged videoed conflict on beaches known to enforce private property rights.
    2) The County sued 4,000+ Beach Property Owners to eliminate their private property rights, wiping out their family investment.
    Eliminate those two offensive pressures, and we can stop Destroying Our 30A Legacy, enjoy the beach again, and each other. Here's a thought before you bang on your keyboard... Did Vizcaya have a security guard or vigilant defenses up before staged videos and maps of it's property were promoted more than 400 times online? No, of course they did not. But publicly back a pit bull into a corner, and you'll get a fight, or at least a sign and security guard. When you drive miles and miles from your own private beach, to look for, find, and instigate a staged fight, you get to be a hero only to those who don't have all of the facts. Funny thing about the law. It's all about facts. That's what our men and women have fought and died for. Our freedom. Our freedom is based on, and forever protected by those laws. Happy Memorial Day y'all.
     
  6. bob bob

    bob bob Beach Fanatic

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    Heads up y'all. Was told Sarah Hucks moving to SoWal as soon as the orange clown gives her permission.
     
  7. Lake View Too

    Lake View Too SoWal Insider

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    You need to get a life, Reggie. You are obsessing about things you have no control over. The situation is in the courts, for better or worse. The BFO’s, however, do have control. Each and every one of them have the choice whether to put up signs and chains. The law does not require them to put up signs to prosecute a trespassing violation. So count the number of signs and get back to me about who changed the atmosphere of the beaches. As to whom is the publicity seeker, you seem to be the front runner. Your non-stop propaganda doesn’t play that well with thousands of beach-goers who haven’t done a damn thing wrong other than try to enjoy the beach as they have always done. Trying to shift the blame is simply ludicrous.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
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  8. Reggie Gaskins

    Reggie Gaskins Beach Lover

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    Look LV2, my Pops taught me that if you lay down and let the school yard bully steal your lunch (beach property), and you don’t protect yourself (no trespassing signs), then he’ll continue to steal from you until you stop him (court). BFO’s don’t like signs, protesters and commissioners caused them, blame them. Thanks to Pops’ lectures, I DO have a very full and grateful life. I don’t obsess, I observe. Propaganda is misinformation directed at the unknowing, like Quiet Title myth, no property tax on beach myth, HB631 turned public beach to private beach myth. My posts have been quite fact and law based. And I believe this conversation is quite useful for all viewpoints. Or would you rather censor those facts that don’t agree with your emotions?
     
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  9. Lake View Too

    Lake View Too SoWal Insider

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    You are repeating yourself over and over again. A sure sign of propaganda. You are saying the BFO's are being bullied. A sure sign of propaganda. You are placing the blame on thousands and thousands of innocent people. A sure sign of propaganda. I'm going to repeat one of the most important parts of this discussion: The BFO's do not have to put up no trespassing signs in order to prosecute people for trespassing. The BFO's who have chosen to do so are the ones who have created the atmosphere we have today.
     
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  10. FactorFiction

    FactorFiction Beach Fanatic

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    For those of you who just enjoy disagreeing with Reggie's viewpoint, but don't add any facts to the conversation, why do you keep commenting? Just curious. You aren't asking questions, you are just attacking someone else's viewpoint and adding conflict
    I go to a stretch of beach that is private and has no signs, but if what I saw just this morning continues or gets worse, I bet that signs will go up soon. Most of the people who were on the beach were fine, but there were a few of those who insisted on putting up tents and canopies in the morning and then walking away for several hours. That is one of the biggest complaints (other than trash and dune issues) I have heard property owners make is these people who set up their day camps. Who will you blame if the property owners end up putting up signs? How do people know what is expected without them? Even the TDC has signs and they don't give a clue that people are going on to private property. Wouldn't it be amazing if all the rhetoric in social media that is used against beach owners and others were instead used to educate people to be respectful?
     
  11. James Bentwood

    James Bentwood Beach Fanatic

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    Their lawyers and neighbors told them to put up the signs. You can't lie to people and get away with it here. There's been signs on the beach for many years before any protesters. I don't want to be on your beach. I don't like your signs and threats.
     
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  12. Lake View Too

    Lake View Too SoWal Insider

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    First of all, I comment on this thread because the exceedingly shameful title of this thread keeps popping up in recent posts. The title is dishonest. The bulk of what is repeated ad nausea is dishonest and disrespectful to a vast amount of honest people. I’ve made several factual statements on this thread and gotten nothing but the same propaganda from you and your side. The reality is the BFO’s have a choice in this situation: to erect signs and chains or not erect signs and chains. If they put the signs up then they need to own up to the consequences of their actions, not blame others.
     
  13. Duchess

    Duchess Beach Lover

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    She has bought here. Don't know if she's moved or not. Happened earlier in the year.
     
  14. Reggie Gaskins

    Reggie Gaskins Beach Lover

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    LV2, let’s try this. I am on no “side”, other than the facts and the law. Trying to settle the noise. We’ve repeatedly demonstrated here that much of the consumed sensationalist private beach complaints are actually false myths. So instead of talking about me or you, let’s discuss facts. Pick1 of the 3 popular private beach myths. Pick just one.
    Quiet title turned public beach to private
    Beach not taxed
    HB 631 turned public beach to private.
    These are all factually false. On which one(s) might I have missed something? Just one. Any one. Go ahead, pick.
     
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  15. Lake View Too

    Lake View Too SoWal Insider

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    When these quiet title proceedings began, they were most likely legal, but whether they were the morally right thing to do is really questionable. Whether there was proper notification of affected parties is also really questionable. When you claimed the beach with quiet title then you most surely should be taxed for that land. I really have no insight as to if you are or if you aren't. And if you now have right to exclusion because of HB 631, then this most valuable territory should be taxed to the hilt. HB631 gave BFO's the right to exclusion. There is no lawful reason to erect signs and chains to prosecute for trespassing. This is a personal choice by BFO's that was allowed by the County, BUT NOT NECESSARY. Therefore, the erection of signs and fences is purely an asinine reaction based on arrogance that has caused the situation we are now in. And I call bullshit on your attempt to say you are on "no side" because the very title of this thread tells me you are clearly insulting anyone who claims customary use has been a doctrine on these beaches for hundreds of years. We all know what your motives are. It's propaganda to make it seem like the BFO's are victims. Period.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  16. MRBS

    MRBS Beach Lover

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    This thread is depressing. I said I’d quit following but easier said than done. Questions not directed at me but here goes—

    Quiet title turned public beach to private: quiet title is used when there is a title dispute - a cloud on title, like use by others — notice rqmts having been met are weak in real life as to non BFOs. Certainly an attempt to exclude.
    Beach not taxed: it’s been set forth by the assessor that it’s not. It’s the value of the ocean view by being BF that’s taxed.
    HB 631 turned public beach to private: don’t think that’s the argument being made; it’s that walton was singled out via the now codified law w retroactive to only a certain date “effectiveness” making the CU ordinance void. Legislation sets out procedure to fix. in process now.

    Signs been cropping up for a long time before the current situation. It’s part of why the CU ordinance was enacted. Each sign has been offensive to me. If CU succeeds or fails the county must rein in bad beach behavior. And banish ghost chairs.

    Going elsewhere for vacation. Will miss the great restaurants and the fairy glen that is Old Seagrove. Frankly, it’s heart breaking. Seems the expectation is for us to get in the car to drive to sit on dry sand instead of our custom, which is to walk down the short shaded oyster shell road with the sweet crunch under our flip flops to the neighborhood access where we enjoy the excruciatingly beauty that nature there offers. As mama says, the whole ”kinnygarden” class seems to be being punished for the acts of a few bad apples. We have been respectful, no big tent encampment, no blaring music. We fill holes and pick up trash. Ah well.
     
  17. Reggie Gaskins

    Reggie Gaskins Beach Lover

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    Depressing? The result, yes. LV2 & MRBS, you’ve been duped, sorry. I know, it’s sad. Otherwise intelligent professionals becoming entitlement followers of a sham seems to be common in Walton County today. Go figure.
    Quiet title solves a glitch in property transfer from one agreeable private property owner to another. You’ve both bought into a lie that it steals public beach, or is nefarious, nope, it is not and do not. The county attorney has authored a report that proves this. Read it. Not one quiet title transfer had ANY public interest. None. Nada. Zip.
    Now, Beaches, porches, bathrooms, garages, torture rooms, grow rooms, outhouses, and helipads are all taxed the same - as part of a whole property. Portions of property don’t get taxed differently. The whole property is taxed on market value period. PROPERTY MARKET VALUE. Anyone telling you different is blowing through a magic flute. Don’t follow. It won’t end well for you.
    Signs have been on 30A beaches for 30 years. Incompetent County leaders not planning beach access for a 600% increase in bodies, the county DIRECTLY suing private property owners to cover their incompetence, and a few Avenatti/Sharpton type internet actors driving clickbait have backed them into a corner. You’d do the same if so violated. Just Imagine it’s YOUR yard?
    It’s like you two don’t want to believe the true history presented to you plainly here. I know for a fact you’re both smarter than that. I get it, this IS emotional, for all of us. But the legal process is not an opinion. It’s not emotion. It’s cause & effect historical fact. And Laws. The title of this post is NOT an opinion or a lie. REGARDLESS OF WHO WINS, THIS VERY LOUD SCREAMING CAMPAIGN AND CU COURT CASE WILL DESTROY OUR 30A LEGACY. How can it end any differently? It cannot.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  18. James Bentwood

    James Bentwood Beach Fanatic

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    The fact that you read @MRBS post and think it's sad because she's been duped, instead of what she actually feels, tells us all we need to know about you. You can see nothing beyond your own purse.
     
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  19. Lake View Too

    Lake View Too SoWal Insider

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    What's depressing is the gaslighting techniques you are using to place blame. Customary use is not something that cropped up a few years ago. Customary use of these beaches has been a doctrine since the first visitors came to these shores thousands of years ago. It was reinforced through the years as each successive generation of beach-goers used the beach in a customary manner. My parents were a part of customary use. The Butler family was a part of customary use. Cube McGee's family were a part of customary use. In fact hundreds of thousands of families, generation after generation, were a part of the customary use of these beaches. For you to pronounce that all of these people are to blame for the destruction of the legacy of 30-A is just plain insulting. Your alternative narrative doesn't hold water. There is a very distinct chance that a handful of arrogant, narcissistic property owners have lied to themselves and others about the true nature of this area, and convinced themselves and their lawyers that there were no people customarily using these beach when they were sold their bundle of rights. Do you really think that your hollow words are just going instantly persuade these people were wrong their entire lives?
     
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  20. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

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    The exact same argument could be made against restauranteers, real estate agents, developers, beach vendors - basically ANYBODY who PROFITS from increased tourism and uncontrolled growth in our area.
     

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